A Flock of F-15X Eagles

[Slater]

By the time the Cheyenne was canceled in 1973, it appears that most of it's issues had been corrected (or were in the process). From reports available on DTIC, it still had a little way to go:

53. Correction of the following deficiency, the inability to effectively perform low-speed, low-level mission tasks below 120 KCAS under reduced-visibility weather conditions due to the lateral-directional stability characteristics (HQRS 7), is mandatory (para 30).

54. Correction of the following shortcomings is desirable:

a. Objectionable vibration levels in portions of the flight envelope (paras 47, 48, and 49).
b. Weak directional stability below 100 KCAS (HQRS 4) (para 26).
c. Poor side-force characteristics below 120 KCAS (HQRS 5) (para 28).
d. High power management workload during maximum power operations (para 44).

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/910262.pdf

[Todd00000]

So the USAF is clinging to an agreement from 1948 to keep control of CAS fixed wing? Gee, not much has changed in technology, threats, tactics or strategy since then I guess.

I would be sorely embarrassed to try to make that justification with a straight face.

The Army should state its CAS needs and if the AF refuses to fund it and provide adequate aircraft, personnel and availability then the agreement should be voided and let Army have a go.

The USAF is clinging to money. The Army did squeal when the AF tried to get rid of the A-10 and the AF lost.

[Todd00000]

We seem to have forgotten that quantity is it's own quality.

.

It takes 3 years after training to make a fighter pilot, in peace time, so quantity isn't coming back anytime soon.

[26 Inf]

It takes 3 years after training to make a fighter pilot, in peace time, so quantity isn't coming back anytime soon.

True that under the current model.

The current tradition dies hard - but years ago there were these things called 'Flying Sergeants' who were not 'officers and gentlemen.'

I'm not talking about fighter pilots, either, rather aggressive young men and women to fly either a turboprop or less technical jet aircraft in the close air support/attack aircraft role.

Damn, a whole bunch of WO's have done okay with Army helicopters in all roles, anti-armor, air assault, transport, gunships, medevac, etc.

[Diamondback]

True that under the current model.

The current tradition dies hard - but years ago there were these things called 'Flying Sergeants' who were not 'officers and gentlemen.'

I'm not talking about fighter pilots, either, rather aggressive young men and women to fly either a turboprop or less technical jet aircraft in the close air support/attack aircraft role.

Damn, a whole bunch of WO's have done okay with Army helicopters in all roles, anti-armor, air assault, transport, gunships, medevac, etc.

And a chopper's a HELL of a lot harder to fly, at least in my simulator experience, than the more basic models of fighter/attack jet. Hell, the A-10's cockpit is basically the same layout as Republic used on the 1950s F-84 Thunderjet, other than the TV screen... Spamming WO's in Broncos could be a winning team for permissive-airspace situations and COIN, but we still need some way to deal with the ZSU's and Tunguskas--DIRCM (laser dazzlers that either lure the missile away or burn out its seeker) can handle the IR-guided MANPADS threat once it gets a little smaller and more evolved.

Similarly, across the board Warrants might be a great parallel career-pathway approach to retaining people for positions which require technical skill but not "Leadership Material"--sort of like an "officer" version of how the Army used to route people worth keeping but not "Leader Types" into Specialist and Technician ranks. A fully parallel W-# system mirroring the O-# grades would also allow greater retention of skilled personnel that are presently forced off to UAL by "Up-Or-Out."

[jpmuscle]

Similarly, across the board Warrants might be a great parallel career-pathway approach to retaining people for positions which require technical skill but not "Leadership Material"--sort of like an "officer" version of how the Army used to route people worth keeping but not "Leader Types" into Specialist and Technician ranks. A fully parallel W-# system mirroring the O-# grades would also allow greater retention of skilled personnel that are presently forced off to UAL by "Up-Or-Out."

Being not .mil is this rationale as painfully obvious and as brilliant in its common sense that it seems to be?


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[Diamondback]

Being not .mil is this rationale as painfully obvious and as brilliant in its common sense that it seems to be?


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I'm not mil either, but I spent my formative years at the feet of WWII USAAF/later USAF veterans remembering the glory days of "Flying Sarges." I was also influenced by a white-paper I read advocating that "Up-or-Out" be replaced with "Up-or-Hold," allowing those who were almost at Retirement eligibility to serve out the time until pension-off and retain/share their "tribal knowledge". Personally, I would advocate that such billets have an Education & Training role, each officer so billeted being assigned one or two officers of the next pay-grade down to mentor. Say, a W-5 mentoring O-4's in an "finishing school for O-5 candidates," or just "tips and tricks to be better at this mission." If the beancounters really need to cut budget and heads, make a W-grade be Mandatory Retirement at 25 years' service--still lets us keep those people's knowledge longer than we can today, and since Warrants don't require Senate approval, that could *also* open up additional ways to recognize superior service in one's field. (There can be only flag-rank generals, but allowing a Bird Colonel who's an SME but not as much on the political ass-kissing to promote as W-7 would reduce the shaftage in those on the wrong side of the Pentagon Politics gamesmanship.)

[Slater]

The USAF's position for the last 50 years or so is that the E-8 and E-9 ranks do the job of Warrants.

[Diamondback]

The USAF's position for the last 50 years or so is that the E-8 and E-9 ranks do the job of Warrants.

As with the Key West Agreement, wouldn't be the first time Uncle Sam's Airborne Fools have needed somebody with a Minuteman III-size crowbar to come pry their head out of their ass for them...