"critical flaw-" in FN pistol

[SteyrAUG]

I watched the video.

Seems to me the concern was things that happen under specific circumstances after the pistol goes back into battery.

I liked the Loaded Laser Straight Safe acronym.

Ok, if you press the slide out of battery AND pull the trigger and it doesn't fire. Any shooter that has any business actually carrying a firearm should at that point expect ANYTHING can happen. You just pulled the trigger on a striker fired weapon and it didn't go bang.

This isn't a stupid design feature like a magazine disconnect. This is a design feature that prevents out of battery discharges. There isn't a handgun in the world specifically designed to do a contact shot with the slide OUT OF BATTERY. The fact that LEOs and CCW people must consider tactics like "contact shots" are just the sad nature of the game.

This is no different than if I get my hand on your gun and force the slide back one inch. The fact that you now can't shoot me isn't a defect of the firearm but the nature of things and shit that can happen. I don't know what magic weapon system AZ intends to purchase that will.

1. Safely fire with the slide out of battery.
2. Completely prevent a discharge AFTER the trigger has been pulled but a round hasn't been fired.

They really are going to have to go back to revolvers because my G19 did the same damn thing every time. Thankfully.

While we are at it, I fcking HATE the Loaded, Laser, Straight, Safe idiocy. If you honestly cannot remember the Four Rules of Basic Gun Safety as presented by Cooper, you have no business carrying a gun or being a LEO. I knew, understood and could quote them when I was 10 years old.

If you have to dumb shit down that damn much then we shouldn't have police officers at all. The whole "out of battery" safety concern is just fcking mystifying. It should be covered under tactics, specifically as a caveat to concepts like contact shots.

Just instruct people that IF YOU HAVE TO fire a weapon pressed against an attacker...

1. There is a strong possibility that your weapon won't fire IF the slide goes out of battery so you will need a contingency plan.

2. If you pulled the trigger on your weapon and it did not fire because the slide was out of battery there is a strong probability that the weapon could inadvertently discharge AT ANY TIME because you have pulled the trigger. You will have to treat the firearm with proper caution as a result until you can take remedial action.

There DONE.

Covers just about any weapon system including 1911s. Know those few things and you are good to go and we aren't out there blaming SERPA's on the fact that we shot ourselves in the leg because we were unable to keep our fingers OFF of the damn trigger during the draw.

And on a final note, none of the above was directed at you specifically. This kind of stupid shit just pisses me the F off because it is so preventable and by blaming the weapon we make LEOs dumber than they need to be. They really need to understand how weapons work and why they can fail. Otherwise we might as well go ahead and issue safety bullets to every officer to prevent unintended discharges.

[SteyrAUG]

My takeaway is that if i push against an attacker and it doesnt fire, just pull back.
Or if you decide not to shoot, rack the slide, which you have to do because of dead trigger anyway?

Pretty much.

The issue is after you try and fire it out of battery something happens with the striker system and it will fire sometime later if bumped right.

Ive talked with several firearms instructors with AZDPS and they have all been able to replicate this issue.

And I bet you can replicate it on virtually any striker fired semi auto. Again, you've pulled the trigger, the firearm didn't fire because the slide was out of battery, you shouldn't consider any firearm safe from a follow up discharge.

[jsbhike]

While obviously not good, why didn't FN just fix the problem and move on? Just about nothing is flawless at first.

[SteyrAUG]

I've owned an FNP-45 since they first hit the market and it's been a fine weapon. I have a variety of modern pistols, including the new Sig Sauer P320/M17, and I still like having a handgun with a hammer. Just old fashioned I guess. For the record, I've had a Glock 17 since 1994 and it has never failed me yet, so the hammer is not a requirement.

Honestly, Glocks, HKP7s and my HK VP70 are the only striker fired weapons I own.

[26 Inf]

I can say that brand new FN M4a1’s come out of the box with some sort of crazy sticky grease. Its on everything, including the buttstocks.

This was more like chunks of spray on finish worn of moving parts.

[duece71]

Every gun manufacturer has a few poopers, remember the Colt All American 2000 9mm? That’s just one example.

[26 Inf]

Ok, if you press the slide out of battery AND pull the trigger and it doesn't fire. Any shooter that has any business actually carrying a firearm should at that point expect ANYTHING can happen. You just pulled the trigger on a striker fired weapon and it didn't go bang.

This isn't a stupid design feature like a magazine disconnect. This is a design feature that prevents out of battery discharges. There isn't a handgun in the world specifically designed to do a contact shot with the slide OUT OF BATTERY. The fact that LEOs and CCW people must consider tactics like "contact shots" are just the sad nature of the game.

This is no different than if I get my hand on your gun and force the slide back one inch. The fact that you now can't shoot me isn't a defect of the firearm but the nature of things and shit that can happen. I don't know what magic weapon system AZ intends to purchase that will.

1. Safely fire with the slide out of battery.
2. Completely prevent a discharge AFTER the trigger has been pulled but a round hasn't been fired.

They really are going to have to go back to revolvers because my G19 did the same damn thing every time. Thankfully.

While we are at it, I fcking HATE the Loaded, Laser, Straight, Safe idiocy. If you honestly cannot remember the Four Rules of Basic Gun Safety as presented by Cooper, you have no business carrying a gun or being a LEO. I knew, understood and could quote them when I was 10 years old.

If you have to dumb shit down that damn much then we shouldn't have police officers at all. The whole "out of battery" safety concern is just fcking mystifying. It should be covered under tactics, specifically as a caveat to concepts like contact shots.

Just instruct people that IF YOU HAVE TO fire a weapon pressed against an attacker...

1. There is a strong possibility that your weapon won't fire IF the slide goes out of battery so you will need a contingency plan.

2. If you pulled the trigger on your weapon and it did not fire because the slide was out of battery there is a strong probability that the weapon could inadvertently discharge AT ANY TIME because you have pulled the trigger. You will have to treat the firearm with proper caution as a result until you can take remedial action.

There DONE.

Covers just about any weapon system including 1911s. Know those few things and you are good to go and we aren't out there blaming SERPA's on the fact that we shot ourselves in the leg because we were unable to keep our fingers OFF of the damn trigger during the draw.

And on a final note, none of the above was directed at you specifically. This kind of stupid shit just pisses me the F off because it is so preventable and by blaming the weapon we make LEOs dumber than they need to be. They really need to understand how weapons work and why they can fail. Otherwise we might as well go ahead and issue safety bullets to every officer to prevent unintended discharges.

Triggered on that video, huh? I honestly cant understand why.

I guess I've done armorer service on several thousand pistols, majority Glock, S&W, and SIG, striker and DA/SA. Part of safety and function after reassembly is ensuring the disconnector is functional going back into battery with the trigger depressed. Firing on going back into battery is not a feature.

I just checked every center fire pistol I own, 19 of them. On all of them if you get them far enough out of battery to disconnect and keep the trigger pressed as you release back into battery, the sear/cruciform retains the striker/hammer.

I do have a CZ85 that seems to let the slide go back pretty far before it disconnects, but it's sear also retained the hammer as it went back into battery.

I'm pretty sure the disconnector on a Commander I was carrying saved me one night. I was in plainclothes (working) and chased a guy into and through a trailer. Ended up on top of him in a bedroom as he reached for a chipping hammer. He had a bruise and scrape against his nose right below his eye orbit where I had shoved the Commander. Lord knows where my finger was. We were so far out of bounds playing cowboy and Indians on that little adventure that if that pistol had fired I'd probably still be in jail. Lessons learned: never chase dope, and never do a favor for an out of state officer, who you don't know, based on a phone call. Thank the Lord I survived that one to grow up a little and not be such a hot dog.

[eightmillimeter]

It seems like 1 more pound of trigger return spring would be the end of it

[SteyrAUG]

Triggered on that video, huh? I honestly cant understand why.

I guess I've done armorer service on several thousand pistols, majority Glock, S&W, and SIG, striker and DA/SA. Part of safety and function after reassembly is ensuring the disconnector is functional going back into battery with the trigger depressed. Firing on going back into battery is not a feature.

I just checked every center fire pistol I own, 19 of them. On all of them if you get them far enough out of battery to disconnect and keep the trigger pressed as you release back into battery, the sear/cruciform retains the striker/hammer.

I do have a CZ85 that seems to let the slide go back pretty far before it disconnects, but it's sear also retained the hammer as it went back into battery.

I'm pretty sure the disconnector on a Commander I was carrying saved me one night. I was in plainclothes (working) and chased a guy into and through a trailer. Ended up on top of him in a bedroom as he reached for a chipping hammer. He had a bruise and scrape against his nose right below his eye orbit where I had shoved the Commander. Lord knows where my finger was. We were so far out of bounds playing cowboy and Indians on that little adventure that if that pistol had fired I'd probably still be in jail. Lessons learned: never chase dope, and never do a favor for an out of state officer, who you don't know, based on a phone call. Thank the Lord I survived that one to grow up a little and not be such a hot dog.

I've just always been taught not to depend on safeties and safety features so I guess I'm old school.

[1168]

This was more like chunks of spray on finish worn of moving parts.

I see. I miss-understood and thought you meant they were super gooped up.