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Thread: Several new TQs approved by TC3 Committee

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Iíve got this new drug. It will control your heart rhythm better than Amiodarone, but it has not been FDA approved, and this is not part of a trial. Try it. Its better.

    Edit: Iím not against new stuff. I just wonít be an early adopter. Risk vs reward and all.
    This. I'm not a guinea pig. I've never seen a govt entity or private EMS system issue this. Their mil spec claim is laughable. It might work great, but it's an unknown. Anyone want to jump out of an aircraft with an unknown parachute that will probably work?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-17 View Post
    The argument that "you can spend $X and get a real CAT!" works as long as you ignore the improvements Recon has made
    But how can we quantify if they are actual improvements when there is no data?

    The only reason they have gotten any traction is the price and amazon reviews by people who say they have a clue but don't. The majority of the reviews can be summed up by

    "I compared this to my CAT and this feels so much nicer"

    "I'm "in law enforcement" and my shift carries these and they seem to be well made"

    "I'm a retired paramedic and I know good stuff when I see it".

    Yeah. Ok

    They're the same people that would leave a glowing review of an Alien Gear Shapeshift Holster, and say their PSA Freedom is better than a Colt. The reviews are littered with the same "yOuRe jUsT pAyInG FoR teH nAmE" bullshit

    I'm not saying they are bad, again I have used them in training, but why risk them being your primary when there are plenty of known quantities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-17 View Post
    the reasons for them not being approved seem mostly to lack of testing.
    This should really say something though. Why field something unproven or at the very least, untested?

    The reason people seem to think they are in "improvement" is the metal windlass. Yeah, it feels nice. Does that translate to real world reliability? In my opinion, no.

    Quantifiable data should drive the equipment we trust our lives to. The manufacturer says they have 12 confirmed saves. Fantastic. The CAT has thousands, so does a cravat and a stick.
    Worry less, Train more.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacticaldesire View Post
    I would advise against relying on the RATs for anything other than animals.
    After watching the vids it's not really that much easier than a CAT.
    Todd
    Colt/BCM

  4. #44
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    the reasons for them not being approved seem mostly to lack of testing.
    ...and even if they were tested, have they been certified?

    No different than Safe Life Defense armor.. "NIJ Rated" is not "NIJ Certified".
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-17 View Post
    These were military-issued Gen 6 Cats straight out of the package. I've seen it happen more than once. Heck, I've seen them come out of the package broken because Joe Snuffy had dropped something on his IFAK or landed wrong in a jump. I also remember the big hoopla about not having a TQ stored outside the IFAK because of them degrading through UV light exposure. Outliers to be sure, but they happen, and features that combat these issues are nice.

    The complaints about Recon's offering boil down to it's not NAR, it's $15, and X group hasn't approved it. That's really no different than a decade ago when the "Colt 6920s or nothing" mentality ruled the roost. The argument that "you can spend $X and get a real CAT!" works as long as you ignore the improvements Recon has made, the price doesn't really matter, and the reasons for them not being approved seem mostly to lack of testing. I've got plenty of CATs, both Gen 6 and 7, I just like Recon's offering. They're an improved clone design, and given time, I think they'll be accepted.

    All that said, I am trying to keep an open mind. If anyone has actual data about them failing or being rejected (as opposed to simply not being tested enough by third parties) I'd love to see it. Everything I've seen about them has been overwhelmingly positive, which matches my own experience.
    Two of the better tactical medical trainers are Caleb Causey of Lone Star Medics and Kerry Davis of Dark Angel Medical. I have trained with both, and Caleb is a friend. Most of the people in this thread either know them or have trained with them.

    Neither recommends the Recon TQ or the RATS. In fact, it's pretty entertaining to listen to them discuss both items.

    When you have 18D's, Ranger Medics and SAR Corpsmen saying "avoid", I tend to do exactly that. I have SOFTT-W tourniquets in my bags, along with a couple of CATS. I prefer the SOF model based on extensive practice sessions under a stopwatch, and used one on someone that ND'd into their leg at a CHL course.

    He failed to qualify, by the way.... I knew someone would ask.

    As a flight paramedic, I used a lot of TQ's "back in the day". I'm no longer current, so I respect people like TCCC.

    Add to the fact that the folks at Recon blatantly ripped off other people's work, and I see no reason to reward that.

    The advice to avoid shopping for TQ's on Amazon and eBay is good. As warned, there are tons of Chinese counterfeits in both venues.

    If people want to use a bootlace and a stick; well, good for them. But it's NOT a good idea to pass them off as a recommended course of action. I've used a dishtowel to try and staunch a shotgun wound. But "possible" is not the same as "preferred".

    Edit to add: If you want to go shopping, some vendors that I personally use are Tactical Medical Solutions, Rescue Essentials and Austere Provisions.
    Last edited by SeriousStudent; 04-16-20 at 19:40. Reason: added vendors

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriousStudent View Post
    Two of the better tactical medical trainers are Caleb Causey of Lone Star Medics and Kerry Davis of Dark Angel Medical. I have trained with both, and Caleb is a friend. Most of the people in this thread either know them or have trained with them.

    Neither recommends the Recon TQ or the RATS. In fact, it's pretty entertaining to listen to them discuss both items.

    When you have 18D's, Ranger Medics and SAR Corpsmen saying "avoid", I tend to do exactly that. I have SOFTT-W tourniquets in my bags, along with a couple of CATS. I prefer the SOF model based on extensive practice sessions under a stopwatch, and used one on someone that ND'd into their leg at a CHL course.

    He failed to qualify, by the way.... I knew someone would ask.

    As a flight paramedic, I used a lot of TQ's "back in the day". I'm no longer current, so I respect people like TCCC.

    Add to the fact that the folks at Recon blatantly ripped off other people's work, and I see no reason to reward that.

    The advice to avoid shopping for TQ's on Amazon and eBay is good. As warned, there are tons of Chinese counterfeits in both venues.

    If people want to use a bootlace and a stick; well, good for them. But it's NOT a good idea to pass them off as a recommended course of action. I've used a dishtowel to try and staunch a shotgun wound. But "possible" is not the same as "preferred".

    Edit to add: If you want to go shopping, some vendors that I personally use are Tactical Medical Solutions, Rescue Essentials and Austere Provisions.
    Not advocating the use of a cravat and stick just making the point that even that has more research behind it than the Recon does.

    I agree, Caleb and Kerry are good dudes.
    Worry less, Train more.

  7. #47
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    Doublepost
    Worry less, Train more.

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