BCM Mod 0 - nothing to complain about!

[Outlander Systems]

As an unashamed miser, and skinflint, the two BCM lowers I have were worth every penny I paid for them.

[Eurodriver]

14.5” Middy. That upper was a blast at the UD course at Kbay, and shot great on a FA Lower. Bought 8/21/2010 (looked it up) I was surprised it was $758, I expected it to be less. I was seriously considering bringing it with me to OEF but I traded a barracks room for a dorm room.

I remember guys on TOS made fun of me for posting that exact pic of that rifle. They said the pic was washed out. Didn’t have BUIS. “Wasn’t what the .mil was using”.

I was confused - I was .mil and using it. I had just cleaned it in the shower in my barracks room and threw it on the bed (rack) for its first picture to show my buddies. I think I was using a Motorola Razr phone to take the pics. I was so lost why anyone would give a shit what a picture looked like. I wasn’t taking a picture of a Hawaiian sunset. It was a damn rifle. It shot amazingly well and never ever missed a beat. Isn’t that what people should care about? Shit, I carried a rifle every day and it was downright annoying - not something I wanted to take pics of.

That’s when I realized the overwhelming vast majority of guys buying guns are only doing it to show off/look cool. Back then, I felt like BCM catered to me. (It is not a coincidence my join date to M4C was also Aug 2010)

I was a Marine dragging that rifle through shit and shooting it with no regard for its well being or maintaining its condition. Up to that point I felt like everyone treated their rifles like that. Now, I know almost no one does.

Today, I’m sure BCMs QA is still on point but they miss me with this marketing of cool guy kit. What happened to the “Safe queens need not apply” and the Filthy 14? Combat ready firearms for shooters - not Instagram freakshows.

It seems the marketing has shifted away from guys like me. All I see are guys in GPNVG-18s with smoke filled rooms and a pristine BCM in the stack. There are like four hundred guys that actually do that shit in real life. Are they really buying so many uppers that they keep BCMs light bill on?

Where are the rifles with dirt on them? Where are the guns people have actually shot? Paul - you know just as well as I (and Docsherm) do that the way rifles are treated in real life in no way reflect any of the marketing on your IG page (I stopped looking after like 45 pictures. Maybe there are some further back). We say guns are “tools”, and anyone who’s ever thrown their M4 into the cab of an MRAP can relate to that in a way which the typical “I put tape on my shell deflector” civilian can’t.

I have no insight to industry standards. I won’t get on board with anything about parts or tooling or metallurgy or any of that jazz. But the marketing has changed, and I can see why guys who shoot people in the face might be a little turned off and use the phrase “hobby grade”.

[Outlander Systems]

Because Instagram, and SOCMED in general, cater to a certain demographic...

14.5” Middy. That upper was a blast at the UD course at Kbay, and shot great on a FA Lower. Bought 8/21/2010 (looked it up) I was surprised it was $758, I expected it to be less. I was seriously considering bringing it with me to OEF but I traded a barracks room for a dorm room.

I remember guys on TOS made fun of me for posting that exact pic of that rifle. They said the pic was washed out. Didn’t have BUIS. “Wasn’t what the .mil was using”.

I was confused - I was .mil and using it. I had just cleaned it in the shower in my barracks room and threw it on the bed (rack) for its first picture to show my buddies. I think I was using a Motorola Razr phone to take the pics. I was so lost why anyone would give a shit what a picture looked like. I wasn’t taking a picture of a Hawaiian sunset. It was a damn rifle. It shot amazingly well and never ever missed a beat. Isn’t that what people should care about? Shit, I carried a rifle every day and it was downright annoying - not something I wanted to take pics of.

That’s when I realized the overwhelming vast majority of guys buying guns are only doing it to show off/look cool. Back then, I felt like BCM catered to me. (It is not a coincidence my join date to M4C was also Aug 2010)

I was a Marine dragging that rifle through shit and shooting it with no regard for its well being or maintaining its condition. Up to that point I felt like everyone treated their rifles like that. Now, I know almost no one does.

Today, I’m sure BCMs QA is still on point but they miss me with this marketing of cool guy kit. What happened to the “Safe queens need not apply” and the Filthy 14? Combat ready firearms for shooters - not Instagram freakshows.

It seems the marketing has shifted away from guys like me. All I see are guys in GPNVG-18s with smoke filled rooms and a pristine BCM in the stack. Where are the rifles that people are actually shooting?

I have no insight to industry standards. I won’t get on board with anything about parts or tooling or metallurgy or any of that jazz. But the marketing has changed, and I can see why guys who shoot people in the face might be a little turned off and use the phrase “hobby grade”.

[Firefly]

Okay well first of all, "Hobby Grade" isn't exactly bad. Most people wont be jumping out of airplanes with a BCM.
I'm merely stating that the one poster was trotting out these established and vetted AR manufacturers that are very much in current use and tossed out a bunch of "yeah, buts" on why a BCM was a worthier purchase that boiled down to some peculiar end user preference or simply cost less. I merely said "That's the definition of hobby grade" Same with another person stating essentially "oh boy I could tell you who is actually using BCM products but it is top secret/classified"

I won't put words in anyones mouth but that sounds, to me, like fueling the whole "I could tell you but have to kill you" mystique that a lot of AR Hobbyists buy into. The "top secret" buyers could range from Mayberry PD SWAT and 5 BCMs to Luxemborg National Volksarmee Provisional Border Defense and 10 BCMs to The Andorran Gendarmerie and 8 BCMs. But that wouldnt sound cool.

We know that the SOCOM uses pretty much whatever and no end of Colts. Secret Service uses KAC. FBI uses Colts and other such. LMT is armimg New Zealand and has had a hand in US Military at the smaller level. HK we know is or has been used by Delta, SMUs, SEALs, etc. HK has also been/is being used by Russian Spetsnaz and FSB.

So really....how freaking top secret can it really be and why?

Also some dude buying an upper and tossing it on his issued lower is kinda a cheap example. Anyone can do that.

BCM will warranty their gun if it goes bad and they have some intetesting marketing and some neat swag but really are trying to sell this image when simply saying "Hey we'll sell you an AR with a keymod and a pencil barrel if you want" isnt bad or inaccurate but it just doesnt sound as cool. The problem with the AR scene in general is it reaks of the motorcycle "lifestyle" spiel where they sell an 'image' free country, free market but yeah....still hobby grade. not a bad thing but come on, man.

The prices have even crept a little to where you can buy either a BCM with extra that most wont need or use or a solid 6920 that has everything you need out the gate and works

just my opinion but at times BCM owners remind me of the old Saturn car people who acted all uppity and smug like they were outdoing Ford, Toyota, AND VW and making a big to-do about how they were so radically different in their commercials and well....that didnt age well.

And the Filthy 14 isnt that unique. Any decently made AR should do the same thing.

But again, your money/time/emotional investment, not mine. I had a BCM, it was aight but I didnt mind DXing it towards SR25 stuff. My Colt and LMT however always have a home

[Diamondback]

I haven't fired the one BCM upper I have yet--it just came off the BBT last week and I don't have all the parts for the build yet--but while I have my quibbles with them on a few things (not offering correct A2 FH on the C8 SFW, not offering green handguards on it, only offering Tri-Rail to complete it separately and then playing will-we-won-t-we-wait-and-see games on the rail's availability for a year before discontinuing it; all of which I knew going in when I made the choice to buy) the quality of components and workmanship on this thing are pretty solid. If there are flaws in components or workmanship, my meager knowledge and experience base isn't sufficient to notice them, and while this upper's primary "mission statement" is as a range-toy for the girlfriend I'd have no qualms about pressing it into service defending home or 'hood should the need arise.

The other BCM components I've used in other builds have been similar--solid parts with my only quibbles being availability and other minor things. All of these are known issues going in, and when their components fit my needs for clones or special-purpose builds again in the future I would not hesitate to do business with them again.

Of course, I'm both a Low Speed High Drag Desk Wonk and still in the Training Wheels phase barely past "Baby's First Build" so my opinion doesn't and shouldn't carry a lot of weight, I'm just reporting what I see and my perceptions of it.

[556BlackRifle]

Because Instagram, and SOCMED in general, cater to a certain demographic...

I don't shave with Gillette razors, I don't do Instagram nor do I do Facebook but I do - do BCM. Great high quality products at a competitive price. Hard to beat that.

[26 Inf]

The problem with the AR scene in general is it reaks of the motorcycle "lifestyle" spiel where they sell an 'image' free country, free market but yeah....still hobby grade. not a bad thing but come on, man.

Nailed it.

I saw a guy several years ago that I hadn't seen for a couple years. In the ensuing time he had bought a HD, gotten sleeved, started smoking stoogies (cool guy ones) and wore what I termed a costume to wide. I asked him, "Hey, Steve, are we in a movie?'

I do have a Street Glide, a Sportster and a KLR650. I wear jeans, boots, a chore coat, and helmet to ride on the street. On the dirt (as opposed to riding my KLR around town) I wear a jacket with armor and a Leatt device in addition to a helmet.

My sister and brother-in-law ride and they are into dress up, I mock them incessantly.

A lot of similarities, Fly you nailed it.

[grizzlyblake]

The problem with the AR scene in general is it reaks of the motorcycle "lifestyle" spiel where they sell an 'image' free country, free market but yeah....still hobby grade. not a bad thing but come on, man.

Let's be real, other than the LE guys and the hunters, 99% of everyone else is playing costume with the AR stuff.

I saw a guy several years ago that I hadn't seen for a couple years. In the ensuing time he had bought a HD, gotten sleeved, started smoking stoogies (cool guy ones) and wore what I termed a costume to wide. I asked him, "Hey, Steve, are we in a movie?'

Yeah, Harley and the rest of that market caters to everyone wanting to dress up like Sons of Anarchy badasses. If they really nail the costume most bystanders won't be able to tell the difference between the real deal and dress up and they're not going to ask about it in fear of maybe just maybe the guy is some gangsta. LARPing to the extreme.

Same with the AR stuff. There's enough Instagram and movie saturation with what the SF guys look like that every AR guy can go get some multicam cargo shorts, flip flops, aloha shirt, beard and tattoos, and take pictures with their MK18 and NODS and role play the part. Like the Harley guy, if he nails the costume most people won't call the guy on the bluff.


To stay on topic, yeah I'd agree that BCM nails this marketing 100%. So does 5.11 and Magpul to an extent. Like Fly said though, free country and all. For me it's gotten a bit too cringeworthy to where it starts to feel like being part of the Star Wars Comic con dress up crowd.

[JediGuy]

...it starts to feel like being part of the Star Wars Comic con dress up crowd.

I respect, but do not participate in Star Wars “cosplay” (what a silly, childish term used by adults), because they know it’s all fake and a majority of the time they make the costumes themselves. I don’t see that amongst military LARPers.

One could also make the comparison of the North Face and Patagonia crowds. Initially, these were pretty serious outdoor or rock climbing brands, but now they are “lifestyle” brands that anyone will wear for their walk around the mall or in their cute shorts to walk the dog in a bike trail. It’s a great thing for profits.

Edit to add: And anything we do to normalize firearm centric brands is a good thing for our culture. Despite Magpul’s pretentious pricing, I love that they had an apparel line that wasn’t all recognizable as “gun stuff.”

[TomMcC]

So I'm trying to get this straight...a military or leo contract is indicative of non-hobby grade iron? So was KAC hobby grade before they got the SS contract? Was LMT hobby grade before they got the NZ contract? Was Colt semi-hobby grade in 1965-1967 with their M16's (not M16A1's) even though they had a military contract, it was a crap shoot to get a working one? Are Noveske and DD considered hobby grade? And in the 1911 world are Burton and Rogers 1911's considered hobby grade pistols? Just trying to figure it out.