BCM Mod 0 - nothing to complain about!

[ilmonster]

As I mentioned earlier, I shoot with a few of the guys who work at Bravo Company. I can attest as C4 mentioned that these folks do like where they work, what they do and take pride in their company and products (seems like a company I wouldn't mind working for). Also, having a bit of background in manufacturing, I'm a little familiar with quality systems good manufacturers use such go/no-go gauges in assembly cells, optical comparitors, CMM's (kept in a climate controlled room on the floor), etc. in the production of a consistent product, and BCM would appear to use many of these modern manufacturing/assembly tools.

I didn't mean to start a pi$$ing contest, but just wanted to say I have a product that has delivered exactly what was promised. I didn't say that to the exclusion of any other similar quality AR's, just that I have a BCM AR that Paul, Troy, Tony and the other folks at BCM made that has met my expectations - not something that always happens in life.

And yes, it is an anecdotal sample size of 1. I took statistics too.

Cheers!

[C4IGrant]

Some of the new videos from Larry Vickers like the factory tour show some of the testing and qc they do. Seems like they have some really innovative stuff and that is only what they are showing the public. I have no reason not to trust BCM and have been in a few arguments on TOS where some seem to be thinking BCM is falling apart. New flavor every week

Yes, the video's give you just a "glimpse" into all the QC that goes on at BCM (that probably none of their competitors do).


C4

[TomMcC]

Well, LMT / KAC / HK really don't compete with BCM.

Meaning DI with midlength gas AR15s with multiple barrel contour options, from lightweight to Gov't profile, under $1500, and readily available.

HK really doesn't even offer a decent 556 rifle to the US that isn't a complete clusterfak / abortion of random changes, do they? For the cost of an MR556-piggy or whatever they call it these days, I'd take a Colt / BCM or two, fully kitted out. Or at the very least I'd spend it with KAC.

Colt allowed themselves to be gotten on the civie side by sticking with carbine gas, Gov't profile, and FSB for that last decade. They have made some strides but even then they dropped one of the best things they had going (LE6920-R Trooper) IMO.

By all account KAC is great, but whether the majority of shooters can translate that into results for the 2-3 x cost is highly debatable. Sure, plenty of cudos on the interwebz of pristine rifles and if I had an unlimited budget, I'd have 2 x SR15s & 2 x SR25s in the safe today - but I don't, so I don't.

And besides, most guys sell rifles every other month "as the mood strikes them" or after "changing directions", and are fine with hobby grade 'builds' that keep the wife off their a$$ since they can still make rent & car payments.

In the end, people will believe what they want to believe. Personally I have had good service with my 2 x BCM uppers, so much so that 1 has been my go to for several years. I take my results and tend to believe that they are a solid, duty grade rifle that can compete with Colts and DD in the $1000-1500 price range.

How is this a description of hobby grade?

[BravoCompanyUSA]

Good Afternoon,
Hope you all had a great holiday weekend.


COSMETIC Blem
With any part there is generally a call out in the TDP for a:
• pre-plating dimension (with tolerances),
• plating dimensions (with tolerances),
• post plating dimensions (with tolerances)

Regarding a cosmetic blem (scratch etc on the surface), what is generally done in this industry and many others is to strip and re-anodize it. It is our understanding after dealing with most every major anodizing house in the country that we are the only company in the industry that does NOT allow the common practice of stripping and re-anodizing of parts. We have been told this repeatedly. (I have no way of verifying the absolute accuracy of that but it is an accepted industry practice)

However the stripping process will change the pre-plating dimensions outside the milspecs, TDP. (Think about IDs on trigger pins, take down pins, where the carrier rides- all now being slightly oversized. Think about exterior dimensions on pics rails, etc) So to get the re-finished product to the correct post plating dimensions, you would need to thicken the anodizing application beyond the milspec TDP, so then it’s not compliant either. Maybe no one would know, but we would. So instead of spending $4 to strip and refinish a part, we discount it for $50 to the customer. The customer gets a true milspec part.

However, this does NOT mean if your parts was a stripped, reworked, and re-plated part it’s going to fail. Quite frankly, strong possibility it won’t. However we feel the TDP is the industry bible. We stick to it. We can look anyone in the eye and say; Yes, BCM is 100% compliant.
A "mechanical blem" at BCM is called scrap.



Parts is Parts ?
I see a lot of “parts is parts” posts all over the internet, and there probably is no one in this industry that wishes that was true more than us. Life would be so much easier if that could be true. No more 80 hour work weeks, no more millions of dollars invested in continuous improvement on QA, and no more stress.
Not picking on anyone, as “parts is parts” is a initial default position to everyone with limited knowledge and experience. It was also my default position 30 years ago as a shooting enthusiast without experience in manufacturing. As I worked in the manufacturing industry I learned nothing could be further from the truth. The devil is always in the details. Metallurgy, process, tolerances – adherence and certification thereof can double the cost over a commercial grade part. It does not matter if you’re talking about barrels, BCG, or pistons and connecting rods, parts are not parts. We have probably made over a million firearms, parts, and accessories, so we are pretty experienced and efficient. We could not even build a BCM rifle/parts at the cost some others can retail. My guess is we may have more costs in QC/QA than some others have in the complete parts. Parts are not parts, but oh how I still wish it was true.

The rifle/parts you receive today are infinitely better quality than the same parts from the year before, and the year before that, etc, etc. Our RMA warranty data documents that. We are splicing up fractions of a percent. And the product/s will be better next year, and the year after that, etc, etc. The quality process is always (and will always be) in a continuous improvement cycle. As I stated in the previous post; We have our own engineering staff and designs, prints, TDP, tooling, production lines, and industry leading QC/QA system. IMHO I feel we are one of the leaders in quality of this industry (again just my opinion and it is subjective) but it is based on decades in this industry along with repeatedly working to support quality systems of other important industry and government players and suppliers.
We are not perfect and have made mistakes, however that immediately becomes a significant study into creating or amending processes such could not happen again.


NO Pay to Influencers
BCM has NEVER paid a YouTuber, author, poster, or influencer of any type for a review or post or communication of any type. That allegation is patently false and completely ridiculous.
(Full Disclosure: We are looking into and testing an affiliate link referral system, but have not implemented)
In fact BCM doesn’t have any sales reps (never has). We don’t even do SHOT Show. We have zero interest in being the biggest rifle company. So I don’t see any of that changing anytime soon. We do have a militant interest in the pursuit of being one of the best (and there are a number of great companies in the industry). The directive is to continuously improve, each day, month, each year.


NO Pay to Gunfighters
It is our fault as we don’t specifically continuously promote this fact, but I am going to state it with crystal clear clarity right now. The BCM Gunfighter program is a NON-compensated program. No one is paid. I say again, no one is paid. Take a good look at their bios. You can NOT buy their endorsement. That is ridiculous. To take it further, that program will NEVER be a paid program. It would not have any value (for obvious reasons).
The BCM Gunfighter program started informally about 12 years ago. We had relationships with a number of military shooting instructors, and asked them to field test various prototypes. “Tell me what is good, tell me what sucks” was the request over a decade ago and is still the ONLY request of the guys in the program now. And that is it. That is all it is. Anything they say about BCM (positive, neutral, or neg) is for them to decide. There are no talking points, there are no sales pitches, nothing. Just a simple “Tell me what is good, tell me what sucks”.

When we rebuilt/rebooted/relaunch our BCM website www.BravoCompanyMFG.com (in approx. 2011), we formalized the Gunfighter program as a way of talking about the trainers we work with. We feel in the long run, more folks with good training equals more pro 2A voters, safer communities, less public fear of black rifles, more empathy toward the professional warriors who are/have put their lives on the line, and a more sophisticated customer base. All good things for all involved.
Take a look BCM’s Gunfighter program. https://bravocompanymfg.com/gunfighters/index.php
Take a look at the American Gunfighter YT series. https://bravocompanymfg.com/american_gunfighter/
The BCM Gunfighter program is about people, and the fact that people are more important than products.



Everyone has their opinion, brand preference, and budget. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are a number of options for all differing quality and budget expectations.
Someone could slam BCM for only doing comms via email, or for not being the most cosmetically pretty rifle, or for a legit issue we screwed up. (We do not walk on water, we make mistakes) All fair. But to say BCM is “hobby grade, rebranded X”, paying shills, paying gunfighters, etc is absolutely false.


DocSherm, I am guessing you are a SME in the battlefield. As such we would all love to have you around in a firefight. However your SME title is not applicable to engineering and manufacturing. I admittedly did not read all your M4C posts, but in the couple I did – you are 180 degrees off the mark. I do not question your motives, (as I think you are a customer of ours) but I do question where you get your intel, as that is a very large amount of wrong info. Respectfully, you may want to reassess your intel channels. And you are always welcome to IM for clarification on anything.


Thank you all for reading.

All the best,

Paul

[BravoCompanyUSA]

Paul, thanks for chiming in. I couldn't be happier with the Mod 0 rifle as I said originally (with exactly 3,400 rounds through it, I checked). I live in your neck of the woods and shoot with a few of your employees at Daniel Boone in the AR competitions (rain or shine). Seeing two of your guys shooting the 2 man team rounds is impressive. Seeing guys emptying the better part of a 60 round Surefire mag in ~ 45 sec is impressive (and getting rounds on target). The rifles are literally smoking for a good minute after the round ends and are crazy hot (and these are with what look to be your lightweight barrels). Never seen one of your rifles have a failure in these conditions, including mine. In general, the guns that folks have issues with (and some do every time) are the Frankenguns they built. BCM's, Colt's, etc. run fine.

Thanks for the comments!

And thank you for yours!
Yes, those guys are some shooters. Left me in the dust a few years back (or longer, lol). They love what they do here, love the shooting community, and we are so lucky to have them and all the great folks here. Employees are your greatest resource, and we are blessed to have them all on the team.
To you and all BCM shooters, Thank you for your purchase and your trust in us and our products.
Enjoy the blaster!

V/R
Paul

[Doc Safari]

Paul--I did prefer the basic "plain Jane" Model Zero with standard handguards, A2 flash hider, stock and pistol grip as they came about 2010 when I got mine.

Truth be told the main reason I went with Colts and got rid of my BCM's is because I prefer the pencil barrel for light weight over the M4 profile barrel. All my rifles are Colt 6720's and one 6520 now.

If you guys would make a basic model Zero with the pencil barrel and plain Jane military furniture I'd get another BCM right away.

[RHINOWSO]

How is this a description of hobby grade?

You'd have to ask Firefly, since he termed that "the description of hobby grade".

I bet this is what we'll get as his response...

[dpb1776]

I shoot two of your rifles one is a 16 inch hammer forged mid the other a stainless 16 mid. Both guns have been flawless. One is used as a indoor match gun and home defense. The other used in two gun and some local precision matches. Both have been used in training classes, and have rounds counts in the 1000s, both 100 percent reliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BravoCompanyUSA]

Paul--I did prefer the basic "plain Jane" Model Zero with standard handguards, A2 flash hider, stock and pistol grip as they came about 2010 when I got mine.

Truth be told the main reason I went with Colts and got rid of my BCM's is because I prefer the pencil barrel for light weight over the M4 profile barrel. All my rifles are Colt 6720's and one 6520 now.

If you guys would make a basic model Zero with the pencil barrel and plain Jane military furniture I'd get another BCM right away.

Hi Doc,
I love the LW barrels as well, and I am a Colt fan! You will do well with Colt. My first AR was a Colt CAR (16") with A2 upper and LW barrel. I still have it and will keep it forever. Drove down to Peoria IL right before the Clinton ban of 1994 to get it. Love it.

I am pretty sure we used to. But right now we just have a LW pencil version but in a middy gas.
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...g-mid-16lw.htm

If not running a front sight (but a low pro gas block and extended handguard), we have the Enhanced LW barrels. They are pencil type (with continuous taper), but are not set up for a handguard cap.

Most everything we are doing now is middy gas (on 14.5" or longer 556 set ups).

V/R
Paul

[tehpwnag3]

MAC recently posted a third video to the series they are doing with a BCM carbine. They took a brand-new BCM carbine, cleaned it, lubed it ONCE with CLP, and then proceeded to put thousands of rounds through it without cleaning or re-lubing. They are going to continue until the carbine fails. So far it has over 4,000 rounds.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otSWDrp9ebk