.45 AARP—Meme or Misunderstood?

**Firefly** · 06-13-19, 16:21

I know everyone has sold us huge lies about 9mm everything. For a minute, even I was eating 9mm bluepills.

But then I remembered....what do I almost universally go hunting with? My trusty Glock 21. And I usually shoot some sizeable hogs. Now I use a .40 and a 10mm and a .44 when I get my wheelgat on, but the more I experiment with hardcast 255 gr ammo the more I see some positive results that you just cannot get with a 9mm

Same for vehicles. Lotsa vehicle shooting training I’ve done with .45. Others use 40. We can parse about capacity and all kinds of other “just as good as” and maybe even denounce 40 and 45 as fuddlore versus vehicles but weight and weight retention are real. .45 is slow but fat.

I know someone will bring up that one cop who had a bad day and shot a crackhead with his G21 and crackie didn’t die right away so now he carries a G17 and a bunch of Glock extendos but I posit this:

What if he shoots another crackie with 9mm and dumps several SMGs worth of 9mm and he still doesn’t die right away again? When do we stop blaming the bullet?

A heavy enough round traveling fast enough will at least break bone. Im not saying 9mm isn’t good for women or short people but slamming a hog shoulder a few times with hard cast .45 makes me skeptical that this isn’t all just some big deal to get everyone to buy 9mm ammo and 9mm accessories

Change my mind, M4C

**1168** · 06-13-19, 16:34

Originally Posted by Firefly

SNIP
A heavy enough round traveling fast enough will at least break bone. Im not saying 9mm isn’t good for women or short people SNIP
Change my mind, M4C

In my experience, 9mm does not simply break bones. Rather, anything cops are shooting, be it 9, 40, or .45 sails through crackheads like they are holograms. Blowback pocketguns rarely seem to exit, OTOH. I’m unimpressed by pistols in general, and have seen no change in outcomes in the 9 vs whatever super blaster argument.

I’m just an 11b turned paramedic, and I carry 9mm.

**Firefly** · 06-13-19, 16:56

Originally Posted by 1168

In my experience, 9mm does not simply break bones. Rather, anything cops are shooting, be it 9, 40, or .45 sails through crackheads like they are holograms. Blowback pocketguns rarely seem to exit, OTOH. I’m unimpressed by pistols in general, and have seen no change in outcomes in the 9 vs whatever super blaster argument.

I’m just an 11b turned medic, and I carry 9mm.

I kinda agree on pocket guns because I had a dude stitched up with .380 ask me for a cigarette as we waited for EMS.

But the shootings I have seen personally vs humans with a .45 or .40 usually ended in fatality or at least crippled

Oddly enough most hood on hood fatalities are usually with something like a .25 or something.

I do agree that rifles win everyday but this country is so cucked where you cant patrol with a shorty 300 blk in a pdw stock because it makes women and thuggies feel “threatened.”

I dunno. I like my .45. Screw it.

**NongShim** · 06-13-19, 19:27

I’d say that there are too many variables that cannot be accounted for when dealing with shots on live tissue to ever use anecdotal evidence. I say this fully aware that many times in my life I’ve resorted to anecdotal evidence. Perfect I am not.

A boar is not a man, and a water buffalo isn’t a white tail. Apples to oranges. Comparing many men to other men is not even an apples to apples comparison. The variables are myriad; angle, velocity upon impact, clothing, BMI, muscle composition, bone density, hydration level, opium consumption, will to survive/reluctance to expire. We aren’t even really hitting on the easy variables like muzzle velocity, bullet construction, BC, etc..

See enough traumatic injuries and you realize that when your number gets called, that’s it. People survive incomprehensible trauma every day; people die from trauma that seems easily treatable on a daily basis.

At the end of the day, you have to make a choice that you feel comfortable with. Science is impartial, physical laws don’t lie. Choose the cartridge whose projectile mass and velocity give you an energy level that makes you feel good.

As noted, handguns < rifles.

**Firefly** · 06-13-19, 19:37

Originally Posted by NongShim

I’d say that there are too many variables that cannot be accounted for when dealing with shots on live tissue to ever use anecdotal evidence. I say this fully aware that many times in my life I’ve resorted to anecdotal evidence. Perfect I am not.

A boar is not a man, and a water buffalo isn’t a white tail. Apples to oranges. Comparing many men to other men is not even an apples to apples comparison. The variables are myriad; angle, velocity upon impact, clothing, BMI, muscle composition, bone density, hydration level, opium consumption, will to survive/reluctance to expire. We aren’t even really hitting on the easy variables like muzzle velocity, bullet construction, BC, etc..

See enough traumatic injuries and you realize that when your number gets called, that’s it. People survive incomprehensible trauma every day; people die from trauma that seems easily treatable on a daily basis.

At the end of the day, you have to make a choice that you feel comfortable with. Science is impartial, physical laws don’t lie. Choose the cartridge whose projectile mass and velocity give you an energy level that makes you feel good.

As noted, handguns < rifles.

I’m not trying to kiss your ass or anything but this post made me feel some kind of way. Not really validation or even introspection. Like....you’ve heard a record before, liked it, haven’t heard it in a while, you play it again and for that one moment, usually on a slightly overcast day when all is just cosmic, it’s like you never heard it before and it’s almost like you are listening to it again for the first time. So your input was greatly appreciated.

Like....I genuinely enjoy the recoil of my 45. That kinda blunt ‘thumpy’ feel. Not a snap or a twangy jolt but that thump. Maybe not all day for 16 hours (I’ll wuss and use a 9mm for that), but it just feels right and familiar. Even that autopsy doctor from the YouTube video basically says its not going to ultimately matter per energy and mass.

And I fully agree. Rifles win every time.
I just like my .45s. It just feels familiar and I can just “feel” it. That probably sounds all like Steven Seagal style mumbo jumbo but its all I can say to explain it.

I know my holds and I like that weight when its topped off.

Just my deal I guess

**grizzman** · 06-13-19, 20:24

You won't get an argument from me.

My personal rule (with a few exceptions) is to carry the pistol that works best....for me. This pistol happens to be a 1911 in .45. Yes, my splits are slower with them compared to
a Glock 19 or 5" M&P 9mm, but gun fights are decided with an assailant or an attacker no longer fighting, not by a shot timer.

In a self defense situation, am I gonna be running and gunning as fast as possible.....highly unlikely. Do I expect to expend more than 8 rounds without an opportunity to change mags......nope.

My aluminum framed 4.25" CCO happens to also be more comfortable to carry (in a SuperTuck or VM2) than a Glock 19 (in a VM2...the SuperTuck hasn't arrived yet)....and even a 9mm Shield, (in a MiniTuck or Alien Gear IWB).

**MountainRaven** · 06-13-19, 21:56

IIRC, homie who got stitched up with three-plus G21 mags turned out to be stone sober.

Maybe the solution is just to do headshots. Bring back the Mozambique, but the headshot turns into an NSR: Two to the chest, however many to the head it takes to drop 'em.

**BuzzinSATX** · 06-13-19, 22:11

Originally Posted by Firefly

But then I remembered....what do I almost universally go hunting with? My trusty Glock 21. And I usually shoot some sizeable hogs. Now I use a .40 and a 10mm and a .44 when I get my wheelgat on, but the more I experiment with hardcast 255 gr ammo the more I see some positive results that you just cannot get with a 9mm......

Change my mind, M4C

Good stuff, FF!

I’m a .45 ACP fan myself...love my G21 and I too enjoy the 230 hardball thump. I generally carry 9MM for urban areas, but .45 is just fun to shoot.

My woods ammo used to be 200 grain flat nose FMJ until I found the Underwood 255 bullets. They do impart some energy. Never shot anything fleshy with them...do they give good straight line penetration? What kind are you carrying?

Take care,