Reasons to upgrade NVGs? (binos, WP, etc)

[GTF425]

As my stock investment continues, I watch this thread. I am torn on pvs14 vs binos.

Long story short, I want a mawl and nods for $2800. I put that into the market in march and have now used very limited, a 14 and BNVDs. I'm still torn. 14 with gain turned down was fine. Bnvd felt more natural...but I didnt feel all that more capable...and 3-4k dolla saved is quantifiable capability too...

I would personally invest in the best PVS-14 you can find vs a pair of binos. The 3-4k you'll save on bottom tier binos vs top tier -14 is a significant training investment, as well as freeing up funds to further optimize your rifle and pistol setups to work with NODs.

Just my opinion. I currently have two jobs that issue me binos (Flight Medic and SRT Medic; funny enough, I use ANVIS' at both) and I own a -14 with a far better tube in it than either pair of binos. I don't feel under equipped with my personal NOD at all.


*ETA- it's been my experience in both the military and out that the majority of my time under NODs is spent navigating. My PVS-14 has a filmless L3 WP tube with an FOM of 1907 (64lp/mm and S:N 29.8), and it absolutely destroys both pairs of ANVIS' in low light performance. So much so, that I have no desire to pick up binos unless the tubes are on par with what's in my -14.

[WS6]

I would personally invest in the best PVS-14 you can find vs a pair of binos. The 3-4k you'll save on bottom tier binos vs top tier -14 is a significant training investment, as well as freeing up funds to further optimize your rifle and pistol setups to work with NODs.

Just my opinion. I currently have two jobs that issue me binos (Flight Medic and SRT Medic; funny enough, I use ANVIS' at both) and I own a -14 with a far better tube in it than either pair of binos. I don't feel under equipped with my personal NOD at all.


*ETA- it's been my experience in both the military and out that the majority of my time under NODs is spent navigating. My PVS-14 has a filmless L3 WP tube with an FOM of 1907 (64lp/mm and S:N 29.8), and it absolutely destroys both pairs of ANVIS' in low light performance. So much so, that I have no desire to pick up binos unless the tubes are on par with what's in my -14.

If you were to participate "against yourself" in a FoF scenario, you would prefer to have the PVS-14 over the ANVIS?

[GTF425]

If you were to participate "against yourself" in a FoF scenario, you would prefer to have the PVS-14 over the ANVIS?

Sure.

[WS6]

Sure.

You don't find the lack of depth/only one eye to be limiting when moving/shooting and moving?

[1168]

You don't find the lack of depth/only one eye to be limiting when moving/shooting and moving?

Its really not that big of a deal because your head is always moving. A better tube will be a better device.

For driving, depth perception becomes more important, but you are also limited to driving only as fast as you can see. So if we have low illumination, tubes that suck, will suck, even if bino.

I loved the 6’s I was issued, though.

[GTF425]

You don't find the lack of depth/only one eye to be limiting when moving/shooting and moving?

I don't, no. I also have 3 years cumulative deployed where I had PVS-14s and climbed mountains, drove vehicles, and walked through wadis and terraced farmland and am very comfortable under NODs.

I also don't run my -14's brightness wide open, so having an eye adapted to the ambient light helps with both providing a wider FOV, better awareness of my immediate surroundings, and I'm also not having to peak under my NODs if I go white light.

Generally speaking- it's slightly more natural feeling to walk under binos and is definitely more intuitive driving under binos. However, the point of NODs is to see in the dark, and my -14 can pull light when my SRT NODs are struggling and need IR lum to keep up. I'll take a better performing tube vs lower any day, and I won't arbitrarily buy binos just to gain an extra tube. If I were to go binos, I would want the tubes to be on par with my -14, or it's a downgrade.

[WS6]

I really hate how multiple people that I know are not FOS, are giving me multiple answers that directly conflict with each other. Not a dig at anyone, just venting some frustration, because try as I might, I know I will have to actually buy and use the kit for a while to "really decide", and it bugs the hell out of me at this price point and my income level.

[WS6]

Its really not that big of a deal because your head is always moving. A better tube will be a better device.

For driving, depth perception becomes more important, but you are also limited to driving only as fast as you can see. So if we have low illumination, tubes that suck, will suck, even if bino.

I loved the 6’s I was issued, though.

My problem is that I got 30 minutes on a PVS, and 30 minutes on binos, and the binos were something like 1800FOM, and the PVS I don't know, but it definitely wasn't as clean as the binos, and the "lens" seemed "warped" where the image wasn't perfectly "true"? if that makes sense, so kindof a horrible "head to head" for me.

[Ironman8]

WS6, I agree that most everyone who has used dual tubes vs single recommends duals as the better option for all the reasons you’ve already heard. It’s very interesting that there are 3 guys in this thread (that I trust information from) are saying somewhat conflicting things from most others out there. I say somewhat because I understand their point about a single higher spec tube being better than “meh” dual tubes. And then there’s the ambient light/gain control/SA advantage to the PVS14. Keep in mind they’ve basically hinted at the fact that they would take duals over single if specs were a wash, so there’s that.

I was in the same place as you recently with the decision process and finally decided that this is the way I’m approaching it: start with a high spec (thin film or UF WP) 14 and use the extra money saved over duals to set up my rifle for night time engagements. Once funds allow and after extensive use and training with the 14, I can then decide if I really need duals...in which case I can decide to either keep the 14 as a backup or a niche application NVG such as traveling with it on a Crye Nightcap due to size/weight (likely option for me if funds allow) OR buy another 14 to bridge (But it will be a heavy system) OR sell the 14 and go with duals. You’ll be able to sell the 14 quicker than duals and in this market/political environment you may not even lose money down the road.

[WS6]

WS6, I agree that most everyone who has used dual tubes vs single recommends duals as the better option for all the reasons you’ve already heard. It’s very interesting that there are 3 guys in this thread (that I trust information from) are saying somewhat conflicting things from most others out there. I say somewhat because I understand their point about a single higher spec tube being better than “meh” dual tubes. And then there’s the ambient light/gain control/SA advantage to the PVS14. Keep in mind they’ve basically hinted at the fact that they would take duals over single if specs were a wash, so there’s that.

I was in the same place as you recently with the decision process and finally decided that this is the way I’m approaching it: start with a high spec (thin film or UF WP) 14 and use the extra money saved over duals to set up my rifle for night time engagements. Once funds allow and after extensive use and training with the 14, I can then decide if I really need duals...in which case I can decide to either keep the 14 as a backup or a niche application NVG such as traveling with it on a Crye Nightcap due to size/weight (likely option for me if funds allow) OR buy another 14 to bridge (But it will be a heavy system) OR sell the 14 and go with duals. You’ll be able to sell the 14 quicker than duals and in this market/political environment you may not even lose money down the road.

I must ask...how is the 14 working out?

Also, here is what I'm looking at (either way t he rifle gets outfitted, and I have taken helmet/mounting into account):

PVS14 35snr, 72lpi, with good EBI and low halo with L3 filmless white phos
RNVG's 25snr, 67lpi, very good EBI and halo with a thin-film Elbit tube white phos, tubes well matched and collamated.


Which one and why, is best?

I will use it for running and gunning, sneaking up on animals, hiking, etc. on un-even and sometimes wooded terrain (the Ozarks).