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Thread: With no LandCruiser 70, or Defender 90/110 in America, what

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    Plus, think about a $60k Corvette and how they don't hold their value very well. A two-three year old one for $30k? Start dropping some parts into that. If it does what it seems it can do, those Top Gear type guys are going to have to shut their crumpet holes.

    On the LR side, I hope someone can break the tech push for ever more techy and expensive and less capable SUVs and get back to leaner, cheaper and more capable- but I think the safety regs and economics make that unlikely. The JL is probably as close to the simple as we can get, unless Mahindra breaks some barriers.
    I suspect you are correct on the SUV front.

    I have a friend with a 2018 McLaren and I would happily grin from ear to ear to see a domestic product that cost half or a third of his, just eat his lunch on the track.

  2. #72
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    I figured I'd contribute to this thread with a vehicle I have totally enjoyed. This is a 1994 Land Rover Discovery 1, built in March 1994 and purchased by me in June 1994. I am the original owner and it currently has 277,400 miles on it. It is a rare 5 speed, and in 1994 only 5500 Discovery 1's came into the US, and only 200 were 5 speeds. I have not seen any Discovery 1's with the manual trans in subsequent years. I replaced the first clutch at 110,000 miles and I am still on that replaced clutch. The cruise control went out a long time ago and I replaced the Pioneer Radio with a Kenwood Stereo with bluetooth. Other improvements were a 1.75 inch Old Man Emu Lift, ARB front bumper with Warn 8000 winch, Hella Lights and Wolf NATO Steel Wheels and BFG 10 ply 255/75/16 tires.

    Some of you may know that the 3.9 liter, 241 cubic inch V8 was a GM design and in the 1964 Buick Skylark. The 182 horsepower engine has a lot of torq, but is not suited to fast starts. I am guessing the 241 cubic inch aluminium block V8 is the smallest production V8 ever produced, but I may be wrong. GM used to have a 260 in the 1979 Olds Cutlass.

    This vehicle has been a back-up "luxury" grocery-getter for the ranch. I bought this as a promotion present when I reached O-4 in 1994. When I promoted to O-3, I bought a Colt AR15-A2 HBAR:



    Maj. USAR (Ret) 160th SOAR, 2/17 CAV
    NRA Life Member
    Black Mesa Ranch. Raising Fine Cattle and Horses in San Miguel County since 1879

  3. #73
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    As much as you love that discovery,
    All I can say is,
    In 1998 when I made Captain I was supposed to get a Defender to replace my 4Runner.

    The universe conspired against me and a new Defender was not an option then.

    The four door Wrangler or the pending FJ then several years later was going to do it.
    The crappy doors of the FJ combined with its comical curves and tiny gas tank, and my lack of enthusiasm in a Wrangler led me to an XTerra. I did not like the 4Runner I tried then.

    If you have not driven a sophisticated AWD, especially in slush, snow, bad road conditions, -
    After a lifetime of the other options, I can’t really explain the benefits.
    Let’s say it’s like go8ng from a stock NYPD Gen2 Glock trigger to a custom 1911.

    I guess, when all is said and done,
    The difference in off road capability of a classic frame on SUV in stock factory configurations, is not all that different in a factory capable type unibody SUV, like a Grand Cherokee trail rated model. But the adverse road conditions capability of the AWD is huge compared to the classic RWD/4WD ability.

    And at the end of the day,
    I want the drive train in my current Jeep GC with AWD, and true low 4WD in a vehicle that looks like this,



    Or a similar 20/25 mpg type updated Nissan or Toyota drivetrain in vehicles, that will AWD up a steep grade with an oil slick on it, that just frozen after a rain and then got snowed on, then take an off road trail, that look like this-



    “Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”

  4. #74
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    I love Discos but it hasn't happened yet. I have heard they are either absolute tanks or money pits. No inbetween.

    One day....

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramairthree View Post
    As much as you love that discovery,
    All I can say is,
    In 1998 when I made Captain I was supposed to get a Defender to replace my 4Runner.

    The universe conspired against me and a new Defender was not an option then.

    The four door Wrangler or the pending FJ then several years later was going to do it.
    The crappy doors of the FJ combined with its comical curves and tiny gas tank, and my lack of enthusiasm in a Wrangler led me to an XTerra. I did not like the 4Runner I tried then.

    If you have not driven a sophisticated AWD, especially in slush, snow, bad road conditions, -
    After a lifetime of the other options, I can’t really explain the benefits.
    Let’s say it’s like go8ng from a stock NYPD Gen2 Glock trigger to a custom 1911.

    I guess, when all is said and done,
    The difference in off road capability of a classic frame on SUV in stock factory configurations, is not all that different in a factory capable type unibody SUV, like a Grand Cherokee trail rated model. But the adverse road conditions capability of the AWD is huge compared to the classic RWD/4WD ability.

    And at the end of the day,
    I want the drive train in my current Jeep GC with AWD, and true low 4WD in a vehicle that looks like this,

    Or a similar 20/25 mpg type updated Nissan or Toyota drivetrain in vehicles, that will AWD up a steep grade with an oil slick on it, that just frozen after a rain and then got snowed on, then take an off road trail, that look like this-
    The only one I can think of that's AWD with the capability you want is the older 8cyl 4Runner, GX470/460, Sequoia, Land Cruiser.

    I know the new Explorer has a fancy AWD system but don't know what it can actually handle and it gas mileage is on par with my 4Runner.

    As far as capability goes. My main concern is snow. I don't need to rock climb on my commute. In the mid 00s we were hit with a big one. At the time my 98 Dodge Ram plowed through no problems meanwhile all the AWD were getting stuck. A few years ago we got hit with another big one. 2ft of snow in less than a day. The guy across from me had no where to move his Expedition so he got plowed in. The next day, with snow up to his bumpers all he did was dig out the driver's door. He rocked it back and forth a few times and plowed right out of the snow

    I don't know how much better a sophisticated AWD is in snow and slush but this past winter all I had to do is turn the lever one click over to 4H and the slush and snow turned into a sunny summer day. But at the end of the day I don't understand the difference between driving and driving. I'm not doing anything different then I normally would.

    I prefer the old squared look too, on just about every car
    Last edited by Arik; 07-27-19 at 05:44.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramairthree View Post
    As much as you love that discovery,
    All I can say is,
    In 1998 when I made Captain I was supposed to get a Defender to replace my 4Runner.

    The universe conspired against me and a new Defender was not an option then.
    For me it wasn't so much of a universal conspiracy but my bank account. Even as a new Major in 1994, my wife was bringing in a bigger paycheck working as a nurse in the local hospital in Clarksville, TN. It was rather discouraging comparing my Leave & Earnings Statement to her check stub. At that time Land Rover was importing the Defender 90 and I believe 500 limited edition Defender 110's. That latter was what I wanted, but the sticker price was $55,000.



    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    I love Discos but it hasn't happened yet. I have heard they are either absolute tanks or money pits. No inbetween.

    One day....
    In reality, there actually is some "inbetween". The 1994 Discovery 1 is actually a solid off-road vehicle, and that limited release 5-Speed helps. With aluminium body panels, but a heavy box ladder frame, it has the weight of 3/4 ton pickup truck. It has the cutouts in the headliner for two sunroofs, but I bought the absolute base model so it has none of that. For off road performance, it is geared low for really clawing your way thru most off road stuff. The design proved itself for Camel Trophy events worldwide. I wish I could get my hands on one of those retired Camel Trophy Discos.

    For the money pit you mention, Land Rover North America likes to charge high end prices for any kind of repairs. My issues have been electronics, including a weird vacuum activated cruise control system which hasn't worked in years for me. They also like to leak oil from all kinds of orifices, but that's just marking their territory like some primal beast.... Here in New Mexico are a couple of former Land Rover Master Mechanics who have set up shop on their own, and I use them for things beyond my mechanical skill level.

    The Discovery 1 was well known overseas before their import to the US in 1994. During my Army years, when on leave in England in the early 1990's and traveling in Europe, I'd see them used as delivery vehicles in different configurations, including two door delivery van set-ups. Never thought I'd own one. My only other second British vehicle is a 2012 Triumph Tiger 800XC Adventure Bike. A story for a different day.
    Last edited by OH58D; 07-27-19 at 09:06.
    Maj. USAR (Ret) 160th SOAR, 2/17 CAV
    NRA Life Member
    Black Mesa Ranch. Raising Fine Cattle and Horses in San Miguel County since 1879

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by OH58D View Post
    For me it wasn't so much of a universal conspiracy but my bank account. Even as a new Major in 1994, my wife was bringing in a bigger paycheck working as a nurse in the local hospital in Clarksville, TN. It was rather discouraging comparing my Leave & Earnings Statement to her check stub. At that time Land Rover was importing the Defender 90 and I believe 500 limited edition Defender 110's. That latter was what I wanted, but the sticker price was $55,000.





    In reality, there actually is some "inbetween". The 1994 Discovery 1 is actually a solid off-road vehicle, and that limited release 5-Speed helps. With aluminium body panels, but a heavy box ladder frame, it has the weight of 3/4 ton pickup truck. It has the cutouts in the headliner for two sunroofs, but I bought the absolute base model so it has none of that. For off road performance, it is geared low for really clawing your way thru most off road stuff. The design proved itself for Camel Trophy events worldwide. I wish I could get my hands on one of those retired Camel Trophy Discos.

    For the money pit you mention, Land Rover North America likes to charge high end prices for any kind of repairs. My issues have been electronics, including a weird vacuum activated cruise control system which hasn't worked in years for me. They also like to leak oil from all kinds of orifices, but that's just marking their territory like some primal beast.... Here in New Mexico are a couple of former Land Rover Master Mechanics who have set up shop on their own, and I use them for things beyond my mechanical skill level.

    The Discovery 1 was well known overseas before their import to the US in 1994. During my Army years, when on leave in England in the early 1990's and traveling in Europe, I'd see them used as delivery vehicles in different configurations, including two door delivery van set-ups. Never thought I'd own one. My only other second British vehicle is a 2012 Triumph Tiger 800XC Adventure Bike. A story for a different day.
    About 15 years ago we had a Disc II at work. What a POS! I don't know how different they are from Discovery I but anything electrical that could break did break. I don't remember the year but it was low mileage. Around 70k or so. Engine and transmission were ok but all the sensors, solinoids, hoses, and other small stuff constantly broke

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arik View Post
    About 15 years ago we had a Disc II at work. What a POS! I don't know how different they are from Discovery I but anything electrical that could break did break. I don't remember the year but it was low mileage. Around 70k or so. Engine and transmission were ok but all the sensors, solinoids, hoses, and other small stuff constantly broke
    Remember Land Rover was importing Range Rover in the mid 1980's. The Disco 1 was the poor man's version with fewer bells and whistles. Land Rover really needed to progress the Disco 1 no further than the 1994 model because you are correct on the issues with later models. In reality, the Defender Line should have been imported more, but they couldn't meet our safety requirements, which is crap. I think all you can buy now are 25 year old Defenders that are imported. An Army buddy of mine in the early 90's retired and went on a photographic trip from South Africa to Ethiopia in a 1973 Series 110 County diesel. He had a rooftop tent, solar panels and the works. No real issues, but they are simple to work on, and every village repair joint on that Continent can fix the things. I wish I had one.

    BTW, someone asked me about the mountains in the background of picture #2 above. You are looking 60 miles off to the northwest and the Sangre de Cristo Mountains near Angel Fire. That is where the Rockies extend into New Mexico. Yes, you can see a long ways out here when in the right spot. These photos were taken at the far north end of my place.
    Maj. USAR (Ret) 160th SOAR, 2/17 CAV
    NRA Life Member
    Black Mesa Ranch. Raising Fine Cattle and Horses in San Miguel County since 1879

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arik View Post
    The only one I can think of that's AWD with the capability you want is the older 8cyl 4Runner, GX470/460, Sequoia, Land Cruiser.

    I know the new Explorer has a fancy AWD system but don't know what it can actually handle and it gas mileage is on par with my 4Runner.

    As far as capability goes. My main concern is snow. I don't need to rock climb on my commute. In the mid 00s we were hit with a big one. At the time my 98 Dodge Ram plowed through no problems meanwhile all the AWD were getting stuck. A few years ago we got hit with another big one. 2ft of snow in less than a day. The guy across from me had no where to move his Expedition so he got plowed in. The next day, with snow up to his bumpers all he did was dig out the driver's door. He rocked it back and forth a few times and plowed right out of the snow

    I don't know how much better a sophisticated AWD is in snow and slush but this past winter all I had to do is turn the lever one click over to 4H and the slush and snow turned into a sunny summer day. But at the end of the day I don't understand the difference between driving and driving. I'm not doing anything different then I normally would.

    I prefer the old squared look too, on just about every car

    As someone who grew up rural next to Canada where half the roads are still unpacked and there is no cell phone coverage for miles between towns,
    A couple of points-
    A similar AWD system in a transverse drivetrain CUV offers the same fantastic adverse road conditions advantages.
    But will not have a true low 4WD for that deep snow.
    They often have car like angles of approach and departure, and typically 2, 3, 4, etc. less inches of ground clearance.

    Having standard 4WD instead of a traction diverting, adjusting, etc. AWD for a body on frame vs unibody is not why your neighbors with super handling AWD MDXs and RDXs could not get of of some subdivision in Maryland after a foot and a half of snow, but your neighbors with the 4Runners, x terras, Grand Cherokee trail, etc. could.
    This feat was due to having 3 or 4 more inches of ground clearance.
    It was due to having a true low 4 to bust out of the deep snow and drive/plow until it got to The cleared main road.

    Standard high 4 is fantastic compared with RWD or FWD as you noted.
    You probably won’t notice the AWD compared to classic hi 4 until you shit some real nasty, slickery stuff.

    I grew up with and have used 4WD since a kid learning to drive in the 70s, and had trucks and SUVs with it since and still have one.
    But have almost ten years with AWD now to.
    It is advantageous.
    “Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”

  10. #80
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    Agree with Ramairthree on this one, a sophisticated AWD system with something like a Torsen center differential that has 4 hi and 4 low that can be locked is far superior to a traditional part time selectable 4X4. Particularly as he notes when driving on ice covered roads, packed snow, etc.

    As for snow that is deep, if you are pushing snow with your bumper then you are in for a tough time. Ground clearance makes more difference most of the time than the type of 4 wheel drive system, and so do tires. I routinely have opportunities in the winter in the Black Hills to break my own trail on totally unplowed roads late at night with 8”+ of fresh snow. That will be 24 miles one way to get to work in those conditions. Just need ground clearance, 4 wheel drive of some sort helps, and good tires.

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