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Senior Member
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
From what I understand the big problem is the shape of the front is dictated by European pedestrian safety and when you put that with our other safety stuff design freedom just isn’t there to do a boxy defender.
The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.
It's that simple.
Banned
Your talking books to tacos so
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Senior Member
Well I didn't see a post on this news, but LR is bringing the Defender 90/110 back to the US.
Now before you go a poppin' champagne, you need to look at it. It's a lot more like the LR3 than the classic Defender.
Senior Member
Absolutely.
These are not sought as single use, dedicated 4X4 off reading toys.
In the same way a lot of guys don’t custom build a dedicated game gun, but buy a single gun to use for games, varmits, fun, and home defense,
Guys buy a vehicle that can do a lot of things.
There is only a fraction of a fraction of buyers looking for a dedicated off road 4x4.
Many do not want the hassle of a custom build, want to put the time into it, etc.
A lot of serious off-roading can be done in some off the shelf configurations, like a trail rated GC, let alone Jeep or 4Runner.
Being able to handle more than that leads to a ton of compromises for a daily driver, jack of all trades SUV.
People like to go get a brand new, reliable, warrantied vehicle that is not a bear of a daily driver, can get them to work in horrendous road conditions, tow a boat or something now and then, with ten inches or so of clearance, that can reasonably handle some off-road stuff the typical CUV is not up to. Once you get way from the CUVs, which seem to come from small to third row sized,
In SUVs, A 5000 poundish vehicle with about 300hp and seating for 5 seems pretty common. People like enough room for gear, dog, etc. and a few kids if needed. A smaller segment opts for the full sized truck based SUVs and 6000 pound types, but they seem to sell a lot less.
Jeep sells over 300k GC and Wranglers a year, Toyota about 100-140k 4Runners..
The companies keep thinking modernized looks and curves, etc. will sell more. It might shift car and CUV buyers from their brands cars and CUVs to their SUVs,
But everyone in the know realizes curvy roofs, sloped in sides, clipped/down sloped rears, interior spares, etc. all cut interior cargo space. And guys with undermounted spares that have been under there in the mud, rain, ice, and snow know how much that sucks.
The FJ was a more attractive choice than a 4Runner or Wrangler or XTerra for some, but everyone I know with one was pissed about the doors, loss or interior cargo space, and small fuel range compared to what they had hoped for. I’m not saying some of the guys didn’t love them, but it was like guys buying the Holden GTO and hating it didn’t look like a GTO or have the same 2+3 seating as a GTO even though they like the LS2, etc.
But it sold dismally. And in my opinion would have sold much better if more classic. The Wrangler is very classic and sells like crazy.
The new Defender result compared to the original is very similar to the FJ result compared to the original.
It’s like LR made a more expensive, more tech, more stuff to go wrong, more pissing off of an even more loyal fan base, less reliable FJ.
“Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”
Senior Member
The G wagon must not have got the memo.
“Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”
Senior Member
Managed to find an article with some photos taken of the underside of the new Defender, specifically of the skid plates, and the suspension.
If you like thin plastic cladding posing as under body protection, aluminum diff housings, and an independent suspension that looks like it came strait off of a Discovery then happy meal for you. If you were looking for an off road capable, utilitarian suspension and well protected hard parts... you can go pound sand.
Land Rover doesn’t care. They sell every shoddy poorly made mall crawler they can slop out of their factory already, so capability and quality are low on the list of priorities for them.
Senior Member
No interest in dedicated off road. I don't want to have separate cars for separate things. I'm also not looking to climb straight up rock cliff. What I want is a good 4x4 capable of most things, reliable and simple. I don't care if it's an old Bronco, a early 4cyl 4Runner, an old Land Cruiser, the 90s Jeep Cherokee, a Lada Niva. I just want rugged, reliable, simple. Don't even need a CD player, no power seats, don't need carpeting and can even live without AC although would be nice to have one
Last edited by Arik; 09-14-19 at 21:21.
Member
I have a 2014 4Runner with the rear locker and it's been a fantastic jack of all trades vehicle. Rides like a Cadillac on the highway and can get into some goofy places off road. I have left mine stock because I plan to drive it for many years.
Really the Jeep Wrangler and Toyota 4Runner have the market cornered. Very few people are going to spend Land Cruiser money and seriously off road the thing.
It boils down to the Jeep being the more "fun" of the two but with worse highway manners and reliability, and the 4R being the better highway/everyday truck with legendary reliability.
I just don't see people clamoring to buy some high dollar Land Cruiser or Defender with the Jeep and Toyota options on the table, unless they're just doing it to be cool/different.
Senior Member
If a Land Cruiser was in my budget, I would pick that over the 4Runner everyday. But I’m in the minority. Most people with $85K vehicle budgets want a fancy pants badge on the hood above all else.
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Lexus was doing a working concept GX this year. Saw some videos on YouTube...here is an article:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...t-photos-info/
If they bring this to market with 3 lockers, fancy AWD and 4L with the crawl,control,and MTS that 4Runner and Tacoma use....that thing is mine
Last edited by hotrodder636; 09-16-19 at 01:10.
ETC (SW/AW), USN (1998-2008)
CVN-65, USS Enterprise
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