With no LandCruiser 70, or Defender 90/110 in America, what

[pinzgauer]

I'll take the weigh penalty of modern crashworthiness for daily driving.

Modern Crashworthyness is much better, for sure. But the FJ55s were heavier than the 4 runners. I could stand on the hood!

Just does not make sense that a 40-50 year newer vehicle is both subjectively slower, and not hardly any better in mileage, despite being lighter.

My older Pathfinder sport was fun to drive. Felt much quicker then the 4 runner, which just seemed to lumber along. Like a big truck, but without the capacity/power to go with it.

I just don't get it. I'm sure they are nice trucks and I like the pro blue. But it does not solve any problem I have with the poor mileage/wimpy powertrain.

So now I have a Lesbaru Forrester for in town and light duty trips. And the Cummins Ram 3500 4x4 quad cab for serious work. And the pinzgauer for fun!

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I'll take that old Lexus over any new German car. Or any German car in the last 20 years

Let's agree to disagree...

Easy button for the 4Runner is just bring the Land Cruiser Prado (which is a GX) with that drivetrain and call it the 4Runner. Do it when the LC Prado gets an update (push it up!) and then Toyota can enjoy economies of scale by having the Prado service all markets including NA. Hell just call it the Land Cruiser Prado for all I care. Make sure it can be had with the AWD Torsen center and a rear locker at a minimum, offer the 4.6L V8 as an option, maybe slap DI on it to up power and mileage, put an 8 or 10 speed behind it. Offer a few trim levels so a guy can get the mechanicals he wants in the budget he can afford. If sales prove successful offer a diesel variant in the 270-300hp/460-500lb-ft range, this engine should also be optional in Tundras, Sequoias and the luxury big Land Cruiser.

Toyota will of course not do any of that.

And what ever they do, it will have to be full electric compatible... ugh, just the way things are today.

I have two kids that the next car will be their main car for the next decade. I like the current 4Runners, they have proven to last a decade, but putting kids these days into a car without some of the active safety features feels like letting your kid play football- it's not child abuse, but not really in your kids best interest. Starting to think to buy a late 19 or lease it and keep it until the next gen comes out. Escalade is 4 years old and out of warranty and all the electrical doo-dads on it are scaring the crap out of me.

[Todd.K]

Modern Crashworthyness is much better, for sure. But the FJ55s were heavier than the 4 runners. I could stand on the hood!

You would think so, but an FJ55 came in just shy of 4,000 lbs, while a current 4Runner is about 4,800 lbs. All that weight and more that comes out of the hood ends up in structure and airbags.

Peak power numbers do not translate well to how fast something feels. Torque under the curve is my preference, and probably goes back to my learning to wheel in a ScoutII and owning many turbo cars.

Two things that can make a large difference in MPG that may be overlooked:

Tires. Larger and heavier tires on the truck based vs car based SUV's

Ground clearance adds a lot of drag, not just height and squareness.

[ramairthree]

Gearing can play a huge role.
A lighter car with far more HP and Torque with a 2.20:1 1st feat and a 3.36 rear end,
Compared to a heavier vehicle with less HP and Tq, which should be slower and overall is,
But with the first gear a 4, the second gear a 2.1 or so similar to the first in the other car, and a rear end lower in comparison like a 3.9,
Especially if better traction,
And the first, say 360 hp/450 ft lbs car, say weighing 3700 pounds with RWD and knocking out a 13 second quarter mile at 110 mph is not a slow daily driver.

Say the second vehicle weighs 1000 pounds more and only has 300hp/300ft lbs.
It has way better traction, RWD with slicks or AWD, whatever.
It may only do the quarter mile over 2 seconds slower and only reach 90mph,
But the launch is going to feel way more powerful.

[Arik]

I don't think the 4Runner is that far of in MPG from any other standard 6cyl mid size CUV/SUV

4Runner 17/21
Explorer 19/27
Pilot 20/27
Murano 20/28
Traverse 18/27
Tahoe 15/22
Highlander 20/24
Jeep Gr. Cherokee 19/26
Kia Sorento 19/26
Kia Telluride 20/26
Dodge Durango 19/26

For being a low tech old school SUV it's really not that bad.

My ride to work is 21.4 miles, 5.1 of which are highway.
My ride home is 21.6 miles 5.7 of that is highway.
Almost 11 miles a day highway and 32 city. This doesn't count weekends which is all city type driving

I check my mpg by dividing mileage driven by gallons filled. I don't check every time but about once a month. So far in the last 4 months I've gotten 19.2, 19.6, 20, 20.9

[ramairthree]

I don't think the 4Runner is that far of in MPG from any other standard 6cyl mid size CUV/SUV

4Runner 17/21
Explorer 19/27
Pilot 20/27
Murano 20/28
Traverse 18/27
Tahoe 15/22
Highlander 20/24
Jeep Gr. Cherokee 19/26
Kia Sorento 19/26
Kia Telluride 20/26
Dodge Durango 19/26

For being a low tech old school SUV it's really not that bad.

My ride to work is 21.4 miles, 5.1 of which are highway.
My ride home is 21.6 miles 5.7 of that is highway.
Almost 11 miles a day highway and 32 city. This doesn't count weekends which is all city type driving

I check my mpg by dividing mileage driven by gallons filled. I don't check every time but about once a month. So far in the last 4 months I've gotten 19.2, 19.6, 20, 20.9

It’s not that the 4Runner is bad.
It’s that you could have way better mpg at the current power level,
Or way more power at the current mpg level.

Market and consumer trends seem to be they are cool with a more classic 15/20 type SUV mpg if it has lots of power.
They want more of a 20/25 type mpg. And about 300 hp / torques minimum.
There are those with ridiculous expectations but the above are in line with knowledgeable buyers.




The average annual miles driven for a working guy in the US about 17k a year.
About 2/3 commute and 1/3 non commute.

Regardless, let’s say you are averaging 20 mpg in one vehicle and 25 in another.
Let’s say regular is 2.50 a gallon and premium 3$.

And 15k miles a year.

Your fuel costs between the two vehicles range 375$ to 450$ more depending on fuel type each year.

And keep climbing as your mileage goes up or the price of gas goes up.

Nothing crazy at current prices, but is is a consumer driven desire.

[Arik]

I guess I'm going to be the outlier. I never looked at HP or torque. Only overall reliability and mpg (for the type of automobile).

Reason being is that in city it's irrelevant. There's no racing. If I drove nothing but straight lines with no stops then maybe. As it is I've been doing the same thing with 130hp (previous cars) as those with 300hp

[meausoc]

The whole world can have these Toyota's but we can't.
http://www.toyotamalawi.com/media/36...0-brochure.pdf

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The whole world can have these Toyota's but we can't.
http://www.toyotamalawi.com/media/36...0-brochure.pdf

Modern engines, airbags, crash bars and crumple zones- what's missing to allow them to come?

I saw a report that the Land Cruiser might not be coming back. Not saying that these are the replacement for them, but if you move the 4Runner up market a bit you could make room for these at the low end. Bring them in for a few years, alternate to an FJ for a few years and back to these.

Since my next car is probably for the kids to drive mostly, I'd want more safety (active and passive), but for 'me' that four door could be my transpo. I like those bifold back doors.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I'm getting a 1990 Defender D110 imported from Holland rebuilt. Hopefully it will be finished by the end of summer.

Any updates??