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Senior Member
Isn't that basically a Wrangler four door? Jeep had a prototype about 10 years ago that was pretty much what you wanted. Bigger than a Wrangler 4 door and a hard top. I like the concept of diesels, but the emissions systems give me the Willies. A want simplier, not more complex. THe problem is that you idea is too risky, no one will take that risk, outside of maybe Mahindra or Tata.
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It's that simple.
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Good luck with any of those things happening with any real quality. Now that India car maker Tata owns Land Rover and Fiat owns Jeep, its all lowest price parts garbage these days. At least Toyota is still Toyota, and Honda is still Honda. Even Nissan is partly owned by Renault.
Last edited by Adrenaline_6; 08-30-19 at 09:59.
Senior Member
Tata has owned LR for over a decade.Originally Posted by Adrenaline_6
Nissan has gone downhill fast
But yeah, I doubt anyone is going to bring back a basic squared off no thrills, none unibody suv with real low gear. Everything is going towards unibody AWD. Basically bigger hatchback sadans. What's really left?
Last edited by Arik; 08-30-19 at 10:20.
Senior Member
That’s part of the reason they sell so many.
If they had better MPG- say 25 or so highway instead of averaging under 20 in the V6,
A little more room behind the rear seats for dogs, storage, etc,
Combine with the long term reliability and lifespan of Toyota.
Or, in the non frame off unibody but true low capable inline drivetrain SUV world,
Like a trail rated grand Cherokee.
I would like the GC a ton more if the rear roof line was flat, and it had rear mounted spare on barn door. That would totally open up the cargo area storage.
But..
Still no classic, typical long life Japanese reputation.
I’ve already had a 4Runner, hilux, XTerra, expeditions, GC, etc. if the 4Runner drivetrain was anywhere near updated and it had a rear mounted spare and barn door I would get one again.
I think automotive companies are trying to go after the soccer mom market, and we are losing SUVs to CUVs, or making SUV features more CUV like.
They seem to think SUV buyers want updated looks and current soccer mom features. We get cartoonish FJs with tiny gas tanks at best, and horrible CUV looking SUVs at worst.
The updates we want are intelligent full time AWD with 4L capability, modern transmissions, and modern MPG. The 15 mpg of twenty years ago is the 25 mpg of today. The classic boxy shape and rear mounted spare maximizes cargo space by not using tire space in or under the cargo area or where a bigger gas tank could be. We want shapes amenable to brushguards and winches. Flat roofs and not slowing down in the back like a rabbit.
Basically, a 2004 Discovery making over 20mpg with Japanese and not LR reliability.
Or 1997 Defender with over 20 mpg and Japanese reliability.
Or the 4Runner AWD platform with a rear mounted spare, barn door, and updated drivetrain pushing 25 mpg.
A LC 70 looking body on a 4Runner, etc.
A Jeep gladiator with cap, rear mounted spare, doors, with Japanese reliability, etc.
“Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”
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I am in awe of how fast Nissan lost desirable market share demographics.
A new XTerra with updated drivetrain and barn doors, rear mounted spare, and built in ladder steps for less than a 4Runner or Wrangler would easily take 20 percent of 4Runner and Wrangler sales. Plus some other models. Put the Armada drivetrain in it. in a 4200 instead of 6000 pound vehicle and you should be in the 20-25 mpg range.
“Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”
Senior Member
I really don’t understand why Toyota doesn’t just make the 4Runner more comparable to the GX460. Raise the roof a bit, put the 4.6L V8 in it (we already know it fits) or better yet the 5.7L, and the new 8 speed auto. Use the same rear door mounting as the GX, slap a full size spare on the back door, use the new space where the underbody mounted spare was to fit a big fuel tank. Make sure to offer it with AWD and lockers. Maybe do a TRD Pro model with a serious suspension, 35” tires, roof rack, rock sliders, and upgraded skid plates. Maybe an optional snorkel for those who plan to spend lots of time in a dusty environment.
Even if such a TRD Pro model cost GX460 money, I think it would sell well. Furthermore I doubt that such a beast would encroach on GX460 sales at all, no one who wants a luxury SUV and has that money is looking for an over landing off roader or vice versa. I’d buy one.
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Yes, that would be sweet.
Only one problem- 99% of people that buy 4runners, wranglers, etc- are driving them to the mall and that’s it.
They are a bunch of 50 year old ladies who want something good in the snow and don’t realize they should be driving a Honda CRV, and just want that “I feel young” aspect of driving a hip 4WD vehicle...
Toyota and others are walking the line between capable off road vehicle and pleasing their niche market which doesn’t and won’t ever take a serious trail.
I’d love Toyota to produce the vehicle you are describing- not gonna happen though.
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Toyota could produce it and I think it would sell. Keep in mind I’m suggesting one model or trim level. Yeah they’re still going to have to make vanilla SR5’s and Limited models for the platform to be viable.
That doesn’t mean they can’t turn out a more focused package. Look at the success of the Ford F-150 Raptor. There is a market for off road focused vehicles, and people will pay to get them if they’re done right.
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As the owner of a Nissan Pro 4x, I believe that Nissan is the PSA of Japanese manufacturers. It gets it done, I guess.
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“What’s New” button, but without GD: https://www.m4carbine.net/search.php...new&exclude=60 , courtesy of ST911.
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Senior Member
I have known dozens of Nissan truck and true pathfinder and maxima and Altima and XTerra owners from early 90s to about ten years ago.
Plus a ton of various overseas model comparisons between the two over many trips over many years.
They had comparable durability and reliability to their Toyota competitors. With a better deal for what you get at buy in with a lesser holding of value over the years.
In fact, anecdotally, the Toyotas were worse. I had a relative have the head gasket issue in their last year fourth gen hilux before it was known enough to be covered.
My fifth gen extra cab one was fine.
My 2nd gen 4Runner did it in the middle of the night on the way from MDW to Fort Benning TDY when it was only about 3 years old and 30k on it. And had to fight to get covered. My first gen XTerra was bomb proof.
In the same era people were getting Maximas and Altimas instead of Camrys and Corollas and happy with them.
Anyway, I digress. I love talking about the muscle car era, guns, whiskeys, and the glory days, maybe mid 90s until ten or 15 years ago so SUVs.
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Because everyone made a true frame on inline drivetrain classic RWD, part time 4WD with 4L SUV then.
It seemed like the parking lot was nothing but 4Runners, XTerras, Pathfinders, Rodeos, Monteros, real Explorers, etc, then. Even the fake SUVs that started coming out had the doors, spares, etc. reminiscent of a real SUV.
Jeep has been selling over 200k Wranglers a year and Toyota over 100k 4Runners the past five years.
One on the lower end of the reliability and a gas hog, the other on the higher end of reliability but a gas hog with a very dated drivetrain. Even the unibody Grand Cherokee is over 200k a year. A lot of these buyers are buying them not because it’s what they want, but because it’s closest to what they want.
“Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”
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