With no LandCruiser 70, or Defender 90/110 in America, what

[FlyingHunter]

But yeah, I doubt anyone is going to bring back a basic squared off no thrills, none unibody suv with real low gear. Everything is going towards unibody AWD. Basically bigger hatchback sadans. What's really left?

Which is why I'm strongly considering an earlier G Wagon.

[Arik]

That’s part of the reason they sell so many.

If they had better MPG- say 25 or so highway instead of averaging under 20 in the V6,
A little more room behind the rear seats for dogs, storage, etc,
Combine with the long term reliability and lifespan of Toyota.

Or, in the non frame off unibody but true low capable inline drivetrain SUV world,
Like a trail rated grand Cherokee.
I would like the GC a ton more if the rear roof line was flat, and it had rear mounted spare on barn door. That would totally open up the cargo area storage.
But..
Still no classic, typical long life Japanese reputation.

I’ve already had a 4Runner, hilux, XTerra, expeditions, GC, etc. if the 4Runner drivetrain was anywhere near updated and it had a rear mounted spare and barn door I would get one again.

I think automotive companies are trying to go after the soccer mom market, and we are losing SUVs to CUVs, or making SUV features more CUV like.

They seem to think SUV buyers want updated looks and current soccer mom features. We get cartoonish FJs with tiny gas tanks at best, and horrible CUV looking SUVs at worst.

The updates we want are intelligent full time AWD with 4L capability, modern transmissions, and modern MPG. The 15 mpg of twenty years ago is the 25 mpg of today. The classic boxy shape and rear mounted spare maximizes cargo space by not using tire space in or under the cargo area or where a bigger gas tank could be. We want shapes amenable to brushguards and winches. Flat roofs and not slowing down in the back like a rabbit.

Basically, a 2004 Discovery making over 20mpg with Japanese and not LR reliability.
Or 1997 Defender with over 20 mpg and Japanese reliability.
Or the 4Runner AWD platform with a rear mounted spare, barn door, and updated drivetrain pushing 25 mpg.
A LC 70 looking body on a 4Runner, etc.
A Jeep gladiator with cap, rear mounted spare, doors, with Japanese reliability, etc.

I don't know if I want modern transmissions considering they're almost all CVT. And plenty seem to have issues before or around 100k. Irrelevant if you lease.

And still not convinced on that intelligent AWD. But from lack of experience im not going to dump on it.

Not sure how much you carry for a under the body spare to make that much of a difference but it doesn't effect me one way or the other.

I will say though ...I get an anywhere between 20.5 and 19.5 mpg in the 4Runner depending on AC or not. I drive almost all city with some highway. My weekday drive is just over 40 miles with 10 being highway...round trip. Everywhere else I go during the course of the week is city driving and I don't get bad mpg. It's not great

Some of my mpg based on mileage driven and gallons filled per week

[Arik]

I really don’t understand why Toyota doesn’t just make the 4Runner more comparable to the GX460. Raise the roof a bit, put the 4.6L V8 in it (we already know it fits) or better yet the 5.7L, and the new 8 speed auto. Use the same rear door mounting as the GX, slap a full size spare on the back door, use the new space where the underbody mounted spare was to fit a big fuel tank. Make sure to offer it with AWD and lockers. Maybe do a TRD Pro model with a serious suspension, 35” tires, roof rack, rock sliders, and upgraded skid plates. Maybe an optional snorkel for those who plan to spend lots of time in a dusty environment.

Even if such a TRD Pro model cost GX460 money, I think it would sell well. Furthermore I doubt that such a beast would encroach on GX460 sales at all, no one who wants a luxury SUV and has that money is looking for an over landing off roader or vice versa. I’d buy one.

They did at one point. The 4th gen had the 4.7ltr V8 AWD with H and L gear along with locking dif. Engine and drivetrain from a GX470

[Arik]

I have known dozens of Nissan truck and true pathfinder and maxima and Altima and XTerra owners from early 90s to about ten years ago.
Plus a ton of various overseas model comparisons between the two over many trips over many years.

They had comparable durability and reliability to their Toyota competitors. With a better deal for what you get at buy in with a lesser holding of value over the years.
In fact, anecdotally, the Toyotas were worse. I had a relative have the head gasket issue in their last year fourth gen hilux before it was known enough to be covered.
My fifth gen extra cab one was fine.
My 2nd gen 4Runner did it in the middle of the night on the way from MDW to Fort Benning TDY when it was only about 3 years old and 30k on it. And had to fight to get covered. My first gen XTerra was bomb proof.

In the same era people were getting Maximas and Altimas instead of Camrys and Corollas and happy with them.

Anyway, I digress. I love talking about the muscle car era, guns, whiskeys, and the glory days, maybe mid 90s until ten or 15 years ago so SUVs.

Insert EVERYONE gif here

Because everyone made a true frame on inline drivetrain classic RWD, part time 4WD with 4L SUV then.
It seemed like the parking lot was nothing but 4Runners, XTerras, Pathfinders, Rodeos, Monteros, real Explorers, etc, then. Even the fake SUVs that started coming out had the doors, spares, etc. reminiscent of a real SUV.

Jeep has been selling over 200k Wranglers a year and Toyota over 100k 4Runners the past five years.
One on the lower end of the reliability and a gas hog, the other on the higher end of reliability but a gas hog with a very dated drivetrain. Even the unibody Grand Cherokee is over 200k a year. A lot of these buyers are buying them not because it’s what they want, but because it’s closest to what they want.

Nissan before 2004 was the shit! Overall. If I could find a 3rd - 4th gen Maxima (1990-99) clean, reletively low mileage and well cared for id be all over it, especially if it was the 3rd gen (pre 94 model..personal preference on looks)

[Coal Dragger]

They did at one point. The 4th gen had the 4.7ltr V8 AWD with H and L gear along with locking dif. Engine and drivetrain from a GX470

Yeah I’m aware of that.

[1168]

I have known dozens of Nissan truck and true pathfinder and maxima and Altima and XTerra owners from early 90s to about ten years ago.
Plus a ton of various overseas model comparisons between the two over many trips over many years.

They had comparable durability and reliability to their Toyota competitors. With a better deal for what you get at buy in with a lesser holding of value over the years.
In fact, anecdotally, the Toyotas were worse. I had a relative have the head gasket issue in their last year fourth gen hilux before it was known enough to be covered.
My fifth gen extra cab one was fine.
My 2nd gen 4Runner did it in the middle of the night on the way from MDW to Fort Benning TDY when it was only about 3 years old and 30k on it. And had to fight to get covered. My first gen XTerra was bomb proof.

In the same era people were getting Maximas and Altimas instead of Camrys and Corollas and happy with them.

Anyway, I digress. I love talking about the muscle car era, guns, whiskeys, and the glory days, maybe mid 90s until ten or 15 years ago so SUVs.

Insert EVERYONE gif here

Because everyone made a true frame on inline drivetrain classic RWD, part time 4WD with 4L SUV then.
It seemed like the parking lot was nothing but 4Runners, XTerras, Pathfinders, Rodeos, Monteros, real Explorers, etc, then. Even the fake SUVs that started coming out had the doors, spares, etc. reminiscent of a real SUV.

Jeep has been selling over 200k Wranglers a year and Toyota over 100k 4Runners the past five years.
One on the lower end of the reliability and a gas hog, the other on the higher end of reliability but a gas hog with a very dated drivetrain. Even the unibody Grand Cherokee is over 200k a year. A lot of these buyers are buying them not because it’s what they want, but because it’s closest to what they want.

You’re not wrong. I only equate it to PSA due to the mix of happy users and unhappy ones, and a decrease in attention to detail in recent years.

The buddy that switched me from Toyota to Nissan had to get his cams replaced, don’t remember why. Broke some other stuff, too. He’s still buying a new one every year because he loves the features and price, and likes his dealer. Got me switched for bang for the buck vs Toyotas.

Mine has had a cigarette lighter/phone charger thingy die, the USB thing to the radio always sucked and now has a short, the aux thingy failed within 3 months, a few other electrical problems, had a cam position sensor replaced (60k), there’s no drains in the bed (I drilled some), has the backup sensors placed in such a way that they BEEEEEEEEEP in reverse when the tailgate is down (dirtbike). The stock tires wore out crazy fast. Like 15k. And the rear diff leaks slightly. And I wish there was a keyhole on the passenger side for when I want to grab some crap out of there, because I don’t keep a fob button thingy on my keychain. It wasn’t available with a manual transmission (don’t get me started on that).

Granted most of this stuff is superficial and only relates to features I didn’t need outside the camshaft sensors and lack of holes in the bed. But some of this shows a lack of attention to detail. I’ve seen indestructible Nissans overseas, so I know they’re still doing well.

It still gets me from point a to point b, at 80knots. And it can crawl through/up crap that neither my Dodge nor Toyota could with its diff locker vs their LSDs. It has a very good cargo management system, perhaps the best. Its just not very Japanese sometimes.

[MountainRaven]

I really don’t understand why Toyota doesn’t just make the 4Runner more comparable to the GX460. Raise the roof a bit, put the 4.6L V8 in it (we already know it fits) or better yet the 5.7L, and the new 8 speed auto. Use the same rear door mounting as the GX, slap a full size spare on the back door, use the new space where the underbody mounted spare was to fit a big fuel tank. Make sure to offer it with AWD and lockers. Maybe do a TRD Pro model with a serious suspension, 35” tires, roof rack, rock sliders, and upgraded skid plates. Maybe an optional snorkel for those who plan to spend lots of time in a dusty environment.

Even if such a TRD Pro model cost GX460 money, I think it would sell well. Furthermore I doubt that such a beast would encroach on GX460 sales at all, no one who wants a luxury SUV and has that money is looking for an over landing off roader or vice versa. I’d buy one.

Maybe I don't know enough to know what I don't know, but...

How would that be different from a Land Cruiser Prado?

[THCDDM4]

Maybe I don't know enough to know what I don't know, but...

How would that be different from a Land Cruiser Prado?

Ere'body wants exactly what they want to be mass produced by X manufacturer, even though 99% of what they want, pretty much already exists commercially somewhere. Just a few mods away...

Like I said early on in this thread- get a 4 runner. Interchange that with get a Prado. Make your desired mods. /End thread/

Hell, I'd rather get a truck and mod it to my desired set up anyways, as no commercial vehicle would ever match exactly what I wanted. Nor could it, practically and be marketed to the masses and be successful.

[pinzgauer]

Son bought a '19 Tacoma TRD quad cab 4x4. Gets mid 25 average. Nice but not plush. Want to say it was $36k out the door.

I'd buy that exact same vehicle in a 4 runner, except you cant get one. Or they dont import them.

The ones they have are loaded to the gills. Like minature Escalades.

Weigh a ton more, cost a ton more, have stuff on them I don't want. Mileage sucks.

I miss the old pathfinder/4runner that was the same exact platform as the truck but with an extra pair of seats and a shell over the bed.

Then again this is the same company that had the xB which sold every one they imported quickly. Cult car (still is), hugely successful.

Listened to focus groups, put it on the camry platform, and sales dropped to 13 of previous year. Then 15% of peak xB box sales the next. Its dead, now.

Fuel mileage dropped by 1/3, physically bigger, yet no more useful space. And less reliable.

I don't get it.

[Arik]

Listened to focus groups, put it on the camry platform, and sales dropped to 13 of previous year. Then 15% of peak xB box sales the next. Its dead, now.

Fuel mileage dropped by 1/3, physically bigger, yet no more useful space. And less reliable.

I don't get it.

Bigger seems to be the way things go. I was driving Altimas when they were compact cars. 30 years ago Camry/Accord/Maxima were considered compact. Tacomas even in the early 00s were smaller trucks then they are today. I'm surprised Corollas and Civics aren't full size today although they are bigger than prior generations.

Same with SUVs. Not across the board but quite common. Make one vehicle bigger then introduce a new smaller model. As the RAV4 got bigger Toyota introduced a smaller, albeit FWD only, SUV