With no LandCruiser 70, or Defender 90/110 in America, what

[ramairthree]

I love the 4Runner.
It just....
Could be set up a little different to be more appealing to me.
Change a tire once in either slushy, wet snow, rock hard ice, or thick mud,
And you will never want an undermounted spare again. Let alone if you have done all three.

As for interior spares,
Clipped, sloped rears, etc.
pack even once, let alone more than once, when everything is thrown off from the damn room you would have if the damn cargo area had been boxier or you actually had your interior space fully available, and you will hate them.

As for sub 20 gallon gas tanks and under 20 hw mpg,
There are large areas to be traveled without 24/7 gas and long stretches in between. We don’t all live in or spend all of our time in areas with three 24 hour gas stations at every crossroads a mile apart.


As for the GX,
With a little less luxury, a little ruggeder, boxier shape, and the spare on the rear, maximizing interior space, with that drivetrain, likely getting it down about 400 pounds to 4Runner curb weight, actually call it the Toyota LC Prado,
And I think it would have done way better than the FJ or the GXs 25k a year sales.

[Arik]

I love the 4Runner.
It just....
Could be set up a little different to be more appealing to me.
Change a tire once in either slushy, wet snow, rock hard ice, or thick mud,
And you will never want an undermounted spare again. Let alone if you have done all three.

As for interior spares,
Clipped, sloped rears, etc.
pack even once, let alone more than once, when everything is thrown off from the damn room you would have if the damn cargo area had been boxier or you actually had your interior space fully available, and you will hate them.

As for sub 20 gallon gas tanks and under 20 hw mpg,
There are large areas to be traveled without 24/7 gas and long stretches in between. We don’t all live in or spend all of our time in areas with three 24 hour gas stations at every crossroads a mile apart.


As for the GX,
With a little less luxury, a little ruggeder, boxier shape, and the spare on the rear, maximizing interior space, with that drivetrain, likely getting it down about 400 pounds to 4Runner curb weight, actually call it the Toyota LC Prado,
And I think it would have done way better than the FJ or the GXs 25k a year sales.

Doesn't the 4R have a 23gal tank?

I get an avg of 19.5 - 20 mpg mixed 65% city 35% highway. I don't live in hill country but it's not exactly flat lands here either

[ramairthree]

I was talking about the FJ. I think it had an 18 gallon tank.

Modern drivetrains can full time AWD with a 4L on demand a 5000lb vehicle in the 300hp/300 ft lbs range with about 20/25mpg.

While not the most egregious example by far, the FJ also slopes down on the rear roof line, and curves in vertically, earring into cargo space. The GC does even worse.


I am not anti Toyota by any means. My family had a 3rd gen 4WD HiLux as an accessory work truck that was indestructible. A 4th gen 4WD that was indestructible, but also a 3VZE 4th gen 4WD that had the head gasket issue. XJ Cherokee, WJ and WK Frand Cherokees.

I personally had a 3VZE extra cab 4WD 5Th gen that was fantastic. I loved my 2Nd gen 4Runner but had the damn 3VZE issue as well. Fixed under warranty/recall it was bombproof after.

Also, personally or for the wife, kids we have had a 2nd gen XTerra, which might well have been an FJ or Wrangler XL if they had been out yet. A 1st gen Expedition, 2nd gen Expedition, 2nd gen MDX, 1st and 2nd gen RDX, 4th gen 2500, and WK2.

Gre up in winter roads and mud rurally. Jumping out to lock hubs when I was not as tall as the tires. Grew up around all the 70s and 80s US options. Became an adult around all the 80s and 90s options. Had a chance to play with a lot of makes here, and plenty of LC, Hi-Lux, Prado, Patrol, etc. options overseas.

Not all my preferences and likes work out to what works best.

I was, and still am, fairly anti unibody, but but I have seen some full on gangster accomplishments out of stock and damn near stock Cherokees and Grand Cherokees.

I was prejudiced against full time AWD, but on horrendous road conditions they are amazing vs the classic RWD/4H/4L options. I have become a full time AWD with 4L on demand proponent.

I love V8s. But there are 6 and even 4 cylinder options that crush some of the classic era V8s.

Looks can be too boxy. But it maximizes space.

Tail gates, hacthes, etc. have some advantages, but that rear spare mounting requiring a door making the spare a non storage issue ends up winning.

I have a huge regard for Japanese reliability and durability, but as the Toyota V6 head gasket demonstrated, they can put out a problem product just like a US or European make.

Station wagons gave way to the SUV.
AWD drive cars died about that time.
Crossover non real SUVs came out- mimicking the look of SUVs to appeal to those who weren%u2019t spending more on a real SUV.
Now AWD cars / Wagons / CUVs are killing real SUVs and SUVs are mimicking the the CUVs in looks and style,

[ramairthree]

I was talking about the FJ. I think it had an 18 gallon tank.

Modern drivetrains can full time AWD with a 4L on demand a 5000lb vehicle in the 300hp/300 ft lbs range with about 20/25mpg.

While not the most egregious example by far, the FJ also slopes down on the rear roof line, and curves in vertically, earring into cargo space. The GC does even worse.


I am not anti Toyota by any means. My family had a 3rd gen 4WD HiLux as an accessory work truck that was indestructible. A 4th gen 4WD that was indestructible, but also a 3VZE 4th gen 4WD that had the head gasket issue. XJ Cherokee, WJ and WK Frand Cherokees.

I personally had a 3VZE extra cab 4WD 5Th gen that was fantastic. I loved my 2Nd gen 4Runner but had the damn 3VZE issue as well. Fixed under warranty/recall it was bombproof after.

Also, personally or for the wife, kids we have had a 2nd gen XTerra, which might well have been an FJ or Wrangler XL if they had been out yet. A 1st gen Expedition, 2nd gen Expedition, 2nd gen MDX, 1st and 2nd gen RDX, 4th gen 2500, and WK2.

Gre up in winter roads and mud rurally. Jumping out to lock hubs when I was not as tall as the tires. Grew up around all the 70s and 80s US options. Became an adult around all the 80s and 90s options. Had a chance to play with a lot of makes here, and plenty of LC, Hi-Lux, Prado, Patrol, etc. options overseas.

Not all my preferences and likes work out to what works best.

I was, and still am, fairly anti unibody, but but I have seen some full on gangster accomplishments out of stock and damn near stock Cherokees and Grand Cherokees.

I was prejudiced against full time AWD, but on horrendous road conditions they are amazing vs the classic RWD/4H/4L options. I have become a full time AWD with 4L on demand proponent.

I love V8s. But there are 6 and even 4 cylinder options that crush some of the classic era V8s.

Looks can be too boxy. But it maximizes space.

Tail gates, hacthes, etc. have some advantages, but that rear spare mounting requiring a door making the spare a non storage issue ends up winning.

I have a huge regard for Japanese reliability and durability, but as the Toyota V6 head gasket demonstrated, they can put out a problem product just like a US or European make.

Station wagons gave way to the SUV.
AWD drive cars died about that time.
Crossover non real SUVs came out- mimicking the look of SUVs to appeal to those who weren�t spending more on a real SUV.
Now AWD cars / Wagons / CUVs are killing real SUVs and SUVs are mimicking the the CUVs in looks and style,

[grizzlyblake]

Yeah I would definitely make a few changes to my 4Runner if I was calling the shots.

1) No infotainment screen. Plain old school digital stereo controls like the pre 2014s.
2) Spare tire on rear factory swing out like the old Broncos.
3) Rubber floors.
4) Vinyl/synthetic headliner.
5) Steel bumpers. Don't need to be "off roady" just not plastic.

This wouldn't be hard to do from the factory and I know plenty of people would buy one trimmed out like this.

[Arik]

I was talking about the FJ. I think it had an 18 gallon tank.

Modern drivetrains can full time AWD with a 4L on demand a 5000lb vehicle in the 300hp/300 ft lbs range with about 20/25mpg.

While not the most egregious example by far, the FJ also slopes down on the rear roof line, and curves in vertically, earring into cargo space. The GC does even worse.


I am not anti Toyota by any means. My family had a 3rd gen 4WD HiLux as an accessory work truck that was indestructible. A 4th gen 4WD that was indestructible, but also a 3VZE 4th gen 4WD that had the head gasket issue. XJ Cherokee, WJ and WK Frand Cherokees.

I personally had a 3VZE extra cab 4WD 5Th gen that was fantastic. I loved my 2Nd gen 4Runner but had the damn 3VZE issue as well. Fixed under warranty/recall it was bombproof after.

Also, personally or for the wife, kids we have had a 2nd gen XTerra, which might well have been an FJ or Wrangler XL if they had been out yet. A 1st gen Expedition, 2nd gen Expedition, 2nd gen MDX, 1st and 2nd gen RDX, 4th gen 2500, and WK2.

Gre up in winter roads and mud rurally. Jumping out to lock hubs when I was not as tall as the tires. Grew up around all the 70s and 80s US options. Became an adult around all the 80s and 90s options. Had a chance to play with a lot of makes here, and plenty of LC, Hi-Lux, Prado, Patrol, etc. options overseas.

Not all my preferences and likes work out to what works best.

I was, and still am, fairly anti unibody, but but I have seen some full on gangster accomplishments out of stock and damn near stock Cherokees and Grand Cherokees.

I was prejudiced against full time AWD, but on horrendous road conditions they are amazing vs the classic RWD/4H/4L options. I have become a full time AWD with 4L on demand proponent.

I love V8s. But there are 6 and even 4 cylinder options that crush some of the classic era V8s.

Looks can be too boxy. But it maximizes space.

Tail gates, hacthes, etc. have some advantages, but that rear spare mounting requiring a door making the spare a non storage issue ends up winning.

I have a huge regard for Japanese reliability and durability, but as the Toyota V6 head gasket demonstrated, they can put out a problem product just like a US or European make.

Station wagons gave way to the SUV.
AWD drive cars died about that time.
Crossover non real SUVs came out- mimicking the look of SUVs to appeal to those who weren�t spending more on a real SUV.
Now AWD cars / Wagons / CUVs are killing real SUVs and SUVs are mimicking the the CUVs in looks and style,

I always had the thought that 4wd has been slowly going away for the last 15 years. Imo has largely to do with women and city people. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming women or trying to come off as sexist but most women don't know and aren't interested in knowing how and when to use 4wd. More than a few times I've stopped to help push a car out of snow only to realize that it was still in 2wd and the driver didn't know what that second shifter was for.

Also let's face it how often do we (does the avg buyer) really really NEED 4wd? I'm in SE Pa and our winters are cold and usually snowy. It can snow all winter and you get 6-8 in of snow every few days or it snow once but dump 30 inches in one day yet this is only my second 4wd vehicle. Way back in 03 I had a 98 Ram 1500 4wd. Between these two I've had nothing but Japanese 4cyl coupes and compacts and I've never been stuck although there were times I wished I had at least a AWD. And I used to drive through some country back roads on my way to and from work. As my bumper was pushing snow I was cursing myself for not taking the main roads, yet never got stuck. Knowing how to drive and having good tires goes a long way.

Up until a few years ago a buddy of mine had a first gen Toyota RAV4. 2dr, stick with locking dif. He lives in upstate Pa where they get a ton of snow and a lot of snow drifts. That little thing never got stuck. Unfortunately the way he drove and his lack of proper maintenance finally killed that little thing when he took it in for an oil change and found out his frame was cracked (or whatever a unibody has). That thing had more mileage than the space shuttle.

[ramairthree]

Yeah I would definitely make a few changes to my 4Runner if I was calling the shots.

1) No infotainment screen. Plain old school digital stereo controls like the pre 2014s.
2) Spare tire on rear factory swing out like the old Broncos.
3) Rubber floors.
4) Vinyl/synthetic headliner.
5) Steel bumpers. Don't need to be "off roady" just not plastic.

This wouldn't be hard to do from the factory and I know plenty of people would buy one trimmed out like this.

Swing out would be better than interior or undermount, but gets old when you’re in and out of the back a lot.

With so many curvy, sloped, hatchback AWD cars, CUVs, and unibody SUVs available, it blows my mind manufacturers try to be like everyone else and make real SUVs curved, sloped, and hatch backed.

Can not a single executive note that the single realistically priced for most buyers non curvy, non sloped, non hatch back, non interior/undermount spare option sold 240k units last year and I think 200k ish a year for five years before that?

Yes. A lot of people got by without 4WD for many years. Dedicated winter tire, skills, tricks, and tips were the norm.

I want to be clear though.

I am not just talking about your classic 4WD, that is always on, when I say I find full time AWD is superior. These systems are very adept at adjusting power to each wheel based on type and amount of traction.

[TomMcC]

I'm getting a new vehicle in 2020 sometime, definitely some sort of 4WD. Was looking hard at the Wrangler 4dr, but this thread has me considering the 4Runner now. What do you guys think of a manual trans like in the Wrangler? I haven't had one in quite a while and was thinking about it.

[Honu]

I did more camping exploring with our last couple rigs and preferred autos these days

Many reasons but really don’t have a want for a manual rig I would be driving daily etc....
If it’s for only limited use and ya love them makes it more fun go for it but the days of being better all around are gone and is more situational to which one is better

Just like IFS prefer it now as the camping/expedition is driving on a lot of road and washboard and small technical sections to get to locations so much better handling feeling etc....

I would love a fj40 again but preferred my recent 4Runner (2015)

I'm getting a new vehicle in 2020 sometime, definitely some sort of 4WD. Was looking hard at the Wrangler 4dr, but this thread has me considering the 4Runner now. What do you guys think of a manual trans like in the Wrangler? I haven't had one in quite a while and was thinking about it.

[Honu]

Agree

My FJC had larger tires the doors held up fine with a swing sideways door so could be a compromise

Was going to do that to the 4Runner (put swing out on it)
but have had em they do get old as mentioned really fast for daily driving

I think the LC 1/3 that drops the other part goes up is the best deign ever !
Shelf to load/sit the rest for shade or rain cover and load from any side is easy

My FJC swing door got really old compared to others like the 4Runner did seem to be in the wrong side

My thing would be make a super solid easy to 3rd party mounting system

Problem many run into is the bumpers then sliders then the plates etc... is the weight and limiting what you can carry without beefing up all and why we changed over time

of course then the MPG and so on suffers etc....


Wanting to save up do a sprinter build or better yet a Fuso quad cab build one day

Swing out would be better than interior or undermount, but gets old when you’re in and out of the back a lot.

With so many curvy, sloped, hatchback AWD cars, CUVs, and unibody SUVs available, it blows my mind manufacturers try to be like everyone else and make real SUVs curved, sloped, and hatch backed.

Can not a single executive note that the single realistically priced for most buyers non curvy, non sloped, non hatch back, non interior/undermount spare option sold 240k units last year and I think 200k ish a year for five years before that?

Yes. A lot of people got by without 4WD for many years. Dedicated winter tire, skills, tricks, and tips were the norm.

I want to be clear though.

I am not just talking about your classic 4WD, that is always on, when I say I find full time AWD is superior. These systems are very adept at adjusting power to each wheel based on type and amount of traction.

Side note
My FJC with solid sliders, plates arb bumper etc.... also a arb fridge dual batteries a gobi rack (would do frontunner next time) recovery gear some other stuff OME suspension and basically 33’s would get about 11-12 MPG when loaded for camping around town 17 tops when empty
Worst winds through Texas one time took us down to 8 for a whole day !
The thing was a brick aerodynamic wise but loved it big time
The suicide doors got really old when the kids got older then about 7 and they hated the dungeon rear seating
The load area being square was useable but being so tall some kinda load manage system is needed like shelf above arb fridge in a slide etc...
4 runner got better mileage reckon a bit less weight and way better aerodynamics