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Thread: "Black Hawk Down": question for soldiers?

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    "Black Hawk Down": question for soldiers?

    I saw the film, read some accounts. Question:

    How did any of the Americans survive that kind of combat?

    Same question I suppose for the Battle of Fallujah.

    Urban war, way outnu.outnumbered, enemy on home territory, urban conditions. How does anybody survive that?

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    Superior equipment, training, and tactics - and probably more importantly - teammates and will.


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    Sic semper tyrannis.

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    Yeah, it's pretty wild when a group of 200 takes on a population 2 million plus and kicks their ass for the most part and inflicts amazing death tolls in the thousands.

    Comes down to guys, gear, support and a really strong desire to not die in this shithole.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

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    They believed in themselves

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    Have you read the book? Lots of good stuff in there.
    There is a lot of "Never Quit" that used to be instilled in Army training. From day one you learn you don't want to be "That Guy" that lets his team down.

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    And air support helps even if just Blackhawks and Little Birds. Plus Ranger training reinforces that don't give up never surrender mindset. One thing that struck me about BHD was trigger control, those guys didn't waste ammo.
    Last edited by mack7.62; 07-15-19 at 06:52.
    “The Trump Doctrine is ‘We’re America, Bitch.’ That’s the Trump Doctrine.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Superior equipment, training, and tactics - and probably more importantly - teammates and will.


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    Our tactics sucked in Fallujah, but we learned very quickly what to do and what not to do. Superior equipment and training, absolutely; superior teammates and superior will and spirit, absolutely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Superior equipment, training, and tactics - and probably more importantly - teammates and will.
    That right there arguably led to the expansion/shitty part of the battle, when the Rangers and their Delta counterparts decided they couldn't let those Blackhawk crews be caught by the Skinnies. Up to that point the mission had largely been a success, with Aidid's lieutenants captured and the egress begun. Then the first bird went down.....

    I'll bet if you asked those guys today they wouldn't do it any differently with regard to their loyalty and what it ultimately cost.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

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    I’d say the same way they prevailed at Belleau Wood, the Ardennes Forest, Tarawa, Hue City, etc... Pure guts, determination, skill and teamwork.
    Psalm 34:19

    To argue with a person who renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. ~ Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    I saw the film, read some accounts. Question:

    How did any of the Americans survive that kind of combat?

    Same question I suppose for the Battle of Fallujah.

    Urban war, way outnu.outnumbered, enemy on home territory, urban conditions. How does anybody survive that?
    Better training, better gear, mindset, etc, would be the general answer. Specific to BHD event: I'm surprised they didn't lose more guys myself. I'd add a devils advocate comment, and this comes right from the horses mouth of one of only 4 SEALs that were there, we became over confident that we could do what ever we wanted due to the far superior training, better gear, mindset, etc, which lead us right into that very trap, and it was a well laid trap at that. We were played and they won as far as their goals vs ours. And it was a proof of concept op by OBL to show, give the US a bloody nose and they will take their toys and go home. Nothing to do with the mil, everything to do with a spinless admin at the time.

    Hubris and over confidence also gets people killed, which seems to be a lesson that needs to be learned over and over.

    Fallujah seems to me textbook we won, they lost and lost ugly, cuz superior training, better gear, mindset, wins the day, but I'm claiming no expertise. 'Muricans are good at war, and anyone who thinks otherwise usually dies...
    - Will

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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

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