"Black Hawk Down": question for soldiers?

[OH58D]

I thought about not posting in this thread, but I'll just add some of my memories. We deployed with 17 aircraft (8 MH-60A & MH-60L) and 9 Little Birds (MH-6J and AH-6J) plus 1 spare Little Bird we robbed parts from. Most of our maintenance crew were still Conus and we could have used more help in that area. At one point we could only launch 4-5 Little Birds at one time.

It was basically two BN's with one O-4, two O-3's and the rest were CW2-CW5's. I was one of the O-3's and was also serving as Bn S-2 as well as pilot. In aviation it's usually a 6-1 ratio of Warrant Officers to Commissioned Officers. The Army likes it that way because too many O-3's move to staff jobs or leave the Army after their 6 to 8 year obligation is finished.

It was a find and catch mission, in the worst part of the world (3rd World Urban Environment). For most of September, we flew all over Mogadishu learning the layout of the place and we were told to de-sensitize the population to seeing our aircraft. In hindsight that wasn't such a good idea because we figured out they could anticipate our arrival by the sound of the aircraft. That directive came from some bonehead at the Pentagon.

Our insertion forces had exfil ground units that were totally outgunned. A 50 cal on a Humvee just doesn't cut it when you're facing hundreds of Chat Chewing maniac militia members, armed with every kind of small arm imaginable as well as RPG's. The 14th Infantry was in no better shape. I've always said we should have gone in and killed Mohamed Aidid and left, but someone figured we could make that place into a functioning city. No. I've seen pictures taken recently and it still looks just as bad.

[JC5188]

CW5 Dan Jallota interview about BHD event.

From the US Army Aviation Museum interview.



https://youtu.be/484I-Cj-qM0

[ABNAK]

I thought about not posting in this thread, but I'll just add some of my memories. We deployed with 17 aircraft (8 MH-60A & MH-60L) and 9 Little Birds (MH-6J and AH-6J) plus 1 spare Little Bird we robbed parts from. Most of our maintenance crew were still Conus and we could have used more help in that area. At one point we could only launch 4-5 Little Birds at one time.

It was basically two BN's with one O-4, two O-3's and the rest were CW2-CW5's. I was one of the O-3's and was also serving as Bn S-2 as well as pilot. In aviation it's usually a 6-1 ratio of Warrant Officers to Commissioned Officers. The Army likes it that way because too many O-3's move to staff jobs or leave the Army after their 6 to 8 year obligation is finished.

It was a find and catch mission, in the worst part of the world (3rd World Urban Environment). For most of September, we flew all over Mogadishu learning the layout of the place and we were told to de-sensitize the population to seeing our aircraft. In hindsight that wasn't such a good idea because we figured out they could anticipate our arrival by the sound of the aircraft. That directive came from some bonehead at the Pentagon.

Our insertion forces had exfil ground units that were totally outgunned. A 50 cal on a Humvee just doesn't cut it when you're facing hundreds of Chat Chewing maniac militia members, armed with every kind of small arm imaginable as well as RPG's. The 14th Infantry was in no better shape. I've always said we should have gone in and killed Mohamed Aidid and left, but someone figured we could make that place into a functioning city. No. I've seen pictures taken recently and it still looks just as bad.

Thanks for posting. Your opinion and thoughts matter, as you are someone who was actually there. If you were hesitant to post it should not have been from folks like myself; I would never criticize what you did or saw. Kudos!

[OH58D]

Thanks for posting. Your opinion and thoughts matter, as you are someone who was actually there. If you were hesitant to post it should not have been from folks like myself; I would never criticize what you did or saw. Kudos!

Gothic Serpent wasn't a good time in my life. I promoted out of the 160th in January 1994 and spent time at the Pentagon and Fort Meade before my assignment back again at Fort Campbell with 2/17 CAV. Kosovo was my only overseas deployment after Mogadishu, and the last of my career in 1999.

Images of women and teenagers running around crazy-like shooting along with the men didn't really get play in the movie. The search for Mike Durant and our broadcasting recordings over the city letting him know he was not forgotten is another strong memory. Time does heal everything, though.

One thing that has never been discussed except in our Night Stalker reunions are the two unmarked rotorcraft at the Mogadishu airport, flown by non-military members (at least we thought). They were Kiowa C and D models, parked to one side and we had no interaction with the crews or passengers. We always suspected CIA, but we had no interaction with them, and rarely saw them aloft. The firepower from that D Model Kiowa would have been appreciated. I would like to have that answered before I die.

[prepare]

Too many potential lessons learned got swept under the rug. And there's no shortage of bonehead directives coming from the pentagon getting Americans killed.
The contractors at the annex in Benghazi have some unanswered questions too from the CIA.
The book I referenced earlier said there was never an AAR at least from the "D" boys side.

[Wake27]

Too many potential lessons learned got swept under the rug. And there's no shortage of bonehead directives coming from the pentagon getting Americans killed.
The contractors at the annex in Benghazi have some unanswered questions too from the CIA.
The book I referenced earlier said there was never an AAR at least from the "D" boys side.

I highly doubt that. Much more likely that they just didn’t publicize it.



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[Diamondback]

Gothic Serpent wasn't a good time in my life. I promoted out of the 160th in January 1994 and spent time at the Pentagon and Fort Meade before my assignment back again at Fort Campbell with 2/17 CAV. Kosovo was my only overseas deployment after Mogadishu, and the last of my career in 1999.

Images of women and teenagers running around crazy-like shooting along with the men didn't really get play in the movie. The search for Mike Durant and our broadcasting recordings over the city letting him know he was not forgotten is another strong memory. Time does heal everything, though.

One thing that has never been discussed except in our Night Stalker reunions are the two unmarked rotorcraft at the Mogadishu airport, flown by non-military members (at least we thought). They were Kiowa C and D models, parked to one side and we had no interaction with the crews or passengers. We always suspected CIA, but we had no interaction with them, and rarely saw them aloft. The firepower from that D Model Kiowa would have been appreciated. I would like to have that answered before I die.

Thanks for sharing--things like this are why I became a historian, to ensure that the stories of those who were there are told in an even-handed manner with all the facts both good and ill entering the ledger.

The one thing I will comment as an armchair historian is, one can never discount the value of a little Help From Above. Some of us, in whatever walk of life we follow, have the Man Upstairs take a special personal interest in taking better care of us than we deserve. (Though THAT's not just history but everyday life experience talking, too.)

[OH58D]

There was a huge After Action Review, at the strategic and tactical levels. There were a lot of redaction of names and specifics in the public releases. If it weren't for the books written, a lot of it would not have been made public - this includes Mike Durant's book.

There were a lot of moving parts to Somalia, and Task Force Ranger was just a little bit of it, but the movie made it seem like the 3 to 6 October period was all that was going on. Gothic Serpent was one blip in Operation Restore Hope, Operation Continue Hope....never figured out how Hope was part of this multi-national fiasco, or how they arrived at the name?

Nobody recalls the shoot downs of aircraft prior to October, the dropping of psyops leaflets or the involvement of Marine AH-1 and AH-4 pilots during Gothic Serpent. They were damn good pilots, but I have yet to meet any of them. And as I mentioned before, there were some aircraft that were operating outside of our AO, doing their own thing with some odd looking high tech gear mounted outboard. One aircraft was a civilian MD version of the MH-6 and had what looked like a stabilized TV camera mount in a big ball on the right side - these aircraft had no markings whatsoever, and those crews had no interaction with us, at least a my level and I was working some of the intel with a plans officer in S-3. Back in those days, right up to and thru 9/11, intel was highly compartmentalized, with turf wars between agencies. I still think they were CIA flying those aircraft. Nobody talks about it unless you were there to see it.

One person who did show interest was the late Col. David Hackworth. About six months before he died, he came to New Mexico and we had a meeting in Albuquerque over a meal. He was writing some article on Gothic Serpent, but I never saw the finished product, if it was ever finished.

[chuckman]

Too many potential lessons learned got swept under the rug. And there's no shortage of bonehead directives coming from the pentagon getting Americans killed.
The contractors at the annex in Benghazi have some unanswered questions too from the CIA.
The book I referenced earlier said there was never an AAR at least from the "D" boys side.

There's always an AAR. Always.

[ffhounddog]

I was in a similar engagement in Iraq. You basically do not give into the fear. Mosul 2017 about the same fighting ISIS. You just keep going. I was lucky I was able to call CAS. I really do hate fighting at night.