Geissele Rail Failures Mega-Thread

**1168** · 07-16-19, 20:40

Originally Posted by docsherm

I am sure they do, just like all of the other Hobby grade brands out there.

Ouch!

Originally Posted by Hammer_Man

Once you go KAC you never go back.

There’s truth in this.

**Wake27** · 07-16-19, 21:42

Originally Posted by Cokie

I have a mk4 15” on an SPR. It hasn’t seen much use but I like it.

The mk16 seems really chunky and I’m surprised the military went with it, especially if they were considering low weight. KAC’s rail is better, even without geissele’s alleged issues. I like to think the army tests stuff pretty well before spending my tax monies but we know how the government works. If the gas block is really too big for the rail then wtf.

The MK16 is deceivingly small and light weight IMO. It’s not going to feel like the original KMR, but it’s pretty damn good. I really like the feel of it.

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**MegademiC** · 07-16-19, 21:45

Originally Posted by drtywk

I don't think they dropped it, but I do think that they do not have a clear cut process that is ISO certified or in line with Six Sigma.

That stuff is all fluff. You either care about the end product or you dont.
The only alternative is you dont know what your doing in which case they(certs) wont save you.

Its the “milspec” of the manufacturing world.

**skatz11** · 07-16-19, 22:00

I don’t mean to get off topic, but does anyone know if there are any adjustable gas blocks that will work with a MK16 rail?

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**Sry0fcr** · 07-16-19, 22:36

Originally Posted by MegademiC

That stuff is all fluff. You either care about the end product or you dont.
The only alternative is you dont know what your doing in which case they(certs) wont save you.

Its the “milspec” of the manufacturing world.

It's not fluff, most people don't understand the difference between QC & QA much less Six Sigma. Does anyone know if .gov even asked for the rail to hold zero when dropped? Might be a case of getting what they asked for instead of what they needed.

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**drtywk** · 07-17-19, 01:11

Most people also do not understand how government contracting actually works, what flow downs are, and what is expected of the contractor with regard to the stated requirement(s) and the flow downs. And while we are on the subject of government contracts, they are supposed to involve a fair and open competition, along with testing to measured standards. There is also a big difference between an actual contract and an open procurement.

**alx01** · 07-17-19, 02:10

I don't know anything about the topic besides as what I've read on the forums. Don't own URGI upper or MK16 rail. So take that with the grain of salt.

1. I was disappointed with URGI concept in general (not Geissele's fault). I still don't see what it gains over what army already had. No innovation whatsoever. None, zero.
To me it just looks like a new rail and that's it. No piston upper (aka HK416 or like), no new caliber, no other even minor upper/lower enhancements. Barrel, arguably, no better than an excellent Colt SOCOM. No gas system enhancements relating to usability, reliability, or rate of fire. It seems to me the Army wanted to justify an appropriation of some extra budget lying around. Why not reach out to Colt/FN/LMT/KAC/HK or any other established vendor and see what they can offer?

2. Possibly the issue specifically related to MK16 was the gas block. Geissele's gas block is one of the largest (if not the largest) on the market and won't fit under most handguards. Good gas block if you have a rail clearance, not the case with smaller diameter rails including MK16/MK14. They should have went in this case with a lower profile gas block like Centurion Arms or SLR Rifleworks GB7-Pin. Both allow for pinning and are super low profile. I've tried and experimented with a lot of different gas blocks before settling on these two recommendations.

3. Theoretically, once dropped the rail possibly makes a hard contact with the gas block and affects immediate area as well as affecting barrel nut interface. IMHO this issue is pretty much relevant to all other rails with little gas block clearance and similar barrel nut interface. Can't speculate if something like DD RIS or KAC URX 3.1 will be affected to the same degree due to a different barrel nut to rail attachment. Some claim that 7 MLOK mounting locations contribute to this issue. If that's the case we would have seen hundreds if not thousands of bent BCM MCMR rails by now.

4. Maybe, just maybe, there is some flaw in rail design or manufacturing which didn't consider all of the aspects of how the accessories will be mounted and drop tested. Maybe they didn't add a reinforcement ribs in certain locations or removed some extra material in order to save weight, or didn't mill the Pic rail on top as planned, etc. All speculations at this point. Generally I think it was blown out of proportion for a civilian market. For military it also matters very little - if they run into issues, they simply won't buy more rails/uppers and sell what they have to dealers or write it off.

5. Question to all people who have concerns with certain rails/brands - what's your recommendation? I don't have the exposure or experience with the different rails on the market (especially in hard use conditions). I'm truly interested in your opinion, experience and recommendations of what reliably worked for you.

**vicious_cb** · 07-17-19, 03:40

Originally Posted by alx01

I don't know anything about the topic besides as what I've read on the forums. Don't own URGI upper or MK16 rail. So take that with the grain of salt.

1. I was disappointed with URGI concept in general (not Geissele's fault). I still don't see what it gains over what army already had. No innovation whatsoever. None, zero.
To me it just looks like a new rail and that's it. No piston upper (aka HK416 or like), no new caliber, no other even minor upper/lower enhancements. Barrel, arguably, no better than an excellent Colt SOCOM. No gas system enhancements relating to usability, reliability, or rate of fire. It seems to me the Army wanted to justify an appropriation of some extra budget lying around. Why not reach out to Colt/FN/LMT/KAC/HK or any other established vendor and see what they can offer?

I had to stop reading here before my eyes rolled back into my head

, what did you expect? A plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?

**ffhounddog** · 07-17-19, 04:02

I have not seen any issues with the mk13 rails I have, would it be the same issue? One has been run but not hard and the other is a safe queen. I will look out for this. I still run 7.0 rails and fixed FSB for my get out of dodge rifle.