C8 Corvette

[ramairthree]

If demographics are Corvette's biggest problem, the launch video was completely wrong. Maybe they were reinforcing their base, but they people they should be targeting won't remember the Challenger exploding, let alone the moon landing.

Yep.
Guys that watched the moon landing in grade school or lasted after used C2s and new C3s when they were teenagers are now the current average age of of a Corvette buyer.

Guys that were teenagers mourning the death of the muscle car era and lamenting the available crop of 80s car’s performance were in HS during the Challenger are now about 50. Awash in a current broad selection of luxury and performance vehicles.

Guys around 40 and younger won’t have the childhood memories of the musclecar era, or nostalgic ties to how damn cool a corvette used to be.

The percentage of 30 and under interested in driving, cars, performance, etc. is a fraction of what it used to be.

And are indoctrinated by public schools, mainstream media, etc. that being a Corvette owning, fighter pilot trying to get into the astronaut program, with a couple of kills under his belt, and a few bar fights to his name is some toxic, undesirable, horrible Throwback. And faced with a bunch of legal repercussions.

Cars cost more in terms of median income, minimum wage, etc. than ever.
Making a performance car more affordable to younger buyers is tough.

The onslaught against cool stuff like performance cars from numerous fronts makes it very hard to offer a product with widespread cool appeal.

Making something a luxury prestigious item while still being affordable to younger cool demographics is tough.

With media and social and regulatory pressure trying to force your product out of existence and make it socially unacceptable.

Sort of like with cigarettes and guns.

[Mjolnir]

Yeah OK. Show me one for less than $90K. My suspicion is that a well equipped C8 is going to be around $65-$70K sticker, and less if we are talking an actual transaction price. The Cayman GT4 is going to cost a lot more than that, while being slower, and more expensive to maintain.

Porsche products are overpriced for what you get in most cases; for the record I love Porsche products but I’m also aware of the price gouging that Porsche engages in. Furthermore; for those of us who don’t live anywhere near a dealership, owning a Porsche and keeping it serviced properly would pose major issues. Personally I am unwilling to drive 5-6 hours down to Denver to get a car serviced. Make no mistake, if it’s made in Germany and is an automobile, there’s a very good chance it’s not going to be particularly reliable. So you will be seeing the shop, if you live close by that’s not as big a deal but it is for me.

My response is to those who think that the Vette is as well engineered and constructed as the Porsche. They are not as durable, either. Those are the facts.

Worked at GM Powertrain Division in the early 90’s.

Corvette Group took Vettes to Stuttgart, GERMANY (Porsche) and ran the cars on Porsche’s durability track. When I asked how well they did I was told they did “horrible”; “they fell apart”.

They are better now - and so are ze Germans.

We all love performance and if I really could afford it I’d probably purchase a 700 bhp Porsche GT2 RS. It would likely be the death of me.

The reality?

A Cayman GT4 provides all the performance I could ever grow to use.

I’d like to tell you I can exploit 75 to 85 percent out of a GT3 chassis but I’d be a liar.




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[Mjolnir]

Wondering if the mid-engine was a request by the racing team?



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I was at GM in 1990 and they had experimental mid-engined Vettes way back then.

Two things: they felt they could not put any more power to the ground with the front mid engine configuration. They apparently wish to play in the 700 bhp silly world as opposed to upping the quality of the car to truly rival the Germans and reliability approaching the Japanese. It needs no more power.

Racing

The race teams are probably smiling. I would be. There will be some challenges but there always are and the mid-engine layout is better than what they had. Nice thing is that it has a new rear suspension!


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[Mjolnir]

The median age of Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini buyers comes out around late 40s.
The current median age of a Corvette owner has been 61 for about a decade.
A decade before that it was 55.
This was not the case in the late 60s/early 70s.

Over the past decade, they have averaged about 20k sold a year.
Lamborghini only sells about 1000 a year. At a much different price point.
Porsche is selling over twice as many cars a year in the US.
Ferrari about 2k a year, again at a much different price point.
Mercedes and BMW sell about 300-350k cars here a year.

This demonstrates a couple of problems.
The average Corvette buyer is older than the average Lincoln, Cadillac, Bugatti, Bentley, Mercedes, BMW buyer.
If a car is being know as for old as shit buyers, and your average age is higher, that is not good.
It is especially not good when when your car is supposed to associated with a premier, luxury purchase, but the makes from other luxury brands are selling ten times as many cars.
When you use logic to explain cost as the issue, but far more expensive performance cars have a much younger average buyer, it falls apart.

It needs to be performance enough to make people’s jaws drop. They have done that.
It needs to be prestigious enough people see it as a luxury and ego model.
But it needs to be inexpensive enough young people can buy it.

Two diametrically opposed 180 degree opposite tasks.

Young people wanting, buying, and lusting after your stuff is important. They have a lot of potential as repeat customers.
A huge percentage of Corvette buyers are repeat owners.
You can sell way more Corvettes to a guy that starts buying at 25 than someone at 65.


Can they make it cool?

I don’t know. An American just launched to the ISS for the 50th moon landing anniversary. A West Pointer MD tabbed combat diver astronaut. Paint one red, white, and blue and give it to him when he comes home.

But wait.
That’s just some Boomer, gen x model racist patriarchy shit.

Give one to Black Widow in her new movie. But wait, she’s just some racist hetero that inappropriately subjugated anime culture.

Give one to black panther in his new movie. There will be others turned off.

There seems to be no cohesive way to make it cool.

Just send it to me, pay for tires, brakes and insurance and repairs and I’ll be their biggest ad.




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[jmoore]

Porsche dealerships are few and far between - true. But the MAJORITY of all the late model vettes I’ve ever known of via friends and acquaintances has spent WEEKS IN THE SHOP the first year or two of ownership!!!!! Very frustrating, to say the least - especially in good driving weather. I could never bring myself to buy such a complicated mass of computerized technology! Yes - a F 150 is theoretically just as complicated, but vettes actually spend SO much time in the shop! As usual - YMMV

geezer john

[vandal5]

I was at GM in 1990 and they had experimental mid-engined Vettes way back then.

Two things: they felt they could not put any more power to the ground with the front mid engine configuration. They apparently wish to play in the 700 bhp silly world as opposed to upping the quality of the car to truly rival the Germans and reliability approaching the Japanese. It needs no more power.

Racing

The race teams are probably smiling. I would be. There will be some challenges but there always are and the mid-engine layout is better than what they had. Nice thing is that it has a new rear suspension!


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Thanks for the insight on that. Didn't know they were looking at it back then.

I followed the ALMS series pretty well throughout the early 2000s. Forget exactly when but for a few seasons they were the only ones in the GT1 class but they still kept on racing (practice for Sebring and LeMans). Saw a special one time where they said the production car engineers would take feedback from them such as ditching the flip up head lights. Or adding other ventilation into the bodywork. This let the race team better adapt the race cars.

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[Corse]

I’m not sure comparing any GM car from the 90’s is fair.

The current JD power (if you put any stock in that) puts Chevrolet as one of the top brands for reliability right behind Porsche. It also puts the new 911 as the most reliable model.

I think it was Car and driver that had a bad time with a long term 2014 vette, but the 2017 was great except for what seems like weak wheels over 40,000 miles.

I’m not sure the vette is any less reliable than any other new car and I take anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt. And it sure as hell is a lot less expensive to fix than a Porsche.

Although if I had the cash....

[Mjolnir]

I’m not sure comparing any GM car from the 90’s is fair.

The current JD power (if you put any stock in that) puts Chevrolet as one of the top brands for reliability right behind Porsche. It also puts the new 911 as the most reliable model.

I think it was Car and driver that had a bad time with a long term 2014 vette, but the 2017 was great except for what seems like weak wheels over 40,000 miles.

I’m not sure the vette is any less reliable than any other new car and I take anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt. And it sure as hell is a lot less expensive to fix than a Porsche.

Although if I had the cash....

The Vette and Camaro historically have been the LEAST reliable cars for GM but have the HIGHEST customer satisfaction (obviously).

Squeaks & rattles are less of an issue with the C7 but it’s not a 911 interior-wise and neither is the body structure but it’s not $100K, either.

I’ve always liked the Grand Sport.


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[Corse]

The interior on the new vettes is much improved, not new 911 standards.

I don’t think the 911 interiors were that great 10years ago though.

And again that price difference is huge.

[bp7178]

I’m not sure comparing any GM car from the 90’s is fair.

I was going to post this exact same thing. The 1990s were 30 years ago...a little over a quarter of a century.