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Thread: 24-month exemption

  1. #1
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    24-month exemption

    I’ve seen a couple people ask about this, but can’t find any of the threads. I don’t recall anybody providing an example or saying they’d done it before. I submitted my last paper form using this method, but that was only a couple months ago. But I filed an EForm back on 6/24 that was approved yesterday, and figured I’d pass on my experience.

    What I’m talking about is the exemption for not having to provide entity documentation if you’ve had an approved form within the last 24 months. A lot of people initially misinterpreted 41F to think you’d be able to avoid prints and photos as well. It’s actually worded to simply say the documentation required to prove the entity’s existence can be skipped if you verify no changes have been made since the last approval.

    This isn’t a huge deal, as it’s often just as easy to provide a copy of the trust/corp, especially if you’re using EForms. One big advantage is you don’t have the risk of a different person at the ATF interpreting your documents differently in regards to who is/isn’t considered a Responsible Person.

    What I did was type up a letter that quoted the instruction from the form and provided the information requested. Additionally, and not specifically required, I copied the first page of the approved form. With my paper F4, I printed the letter and the first page of the previous approval front/back on a single page. For my EForm 1, those same two pages were uploaded in the Electronic Documents section. There’s actually a 24-month option to choose in the dropdown for document type. Here’s what I typed up:
    ________________________________________________________________________

    Entity Documentation Certification

    Instruction 2(d)(4)(b): If the transferee entity has had an application approved as a maker or transferee within the preceding 24 months of the date of filing this application, and there has been no change to the documentation evidencing the existence and validity of the entity previously provided, the entity may provide a certification that the information has not been changed since the prior approval and shall identify the application for which the documentation had been submitted by form number, serial number, and date approved.

    Per the Instruction above…

    I, {insert full name}, as the sole responsible person for {insert entity name}, certify that the information included on my most recent approval has not been changed since it was approved on {insert date from previous approval}.

    A copy of that approved Form 4 Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm for Serial Number {insert SN} is attached.

    ______________________________________
    {insert full name}, Trustee

    ________________________________________________________________________

    I can’t get the signature line and name below it to line up right, but you get the idea. And obviously change the Form 4 Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm to Form 1 Application to Make and Register a Firearm as necessary. Not that it matters, but I did print it just like above with the quoted instruction in italics and the rest in normal font.

    ...and if your entity has more than just you, replace “the sole” with “a” (or whatever you prefer)
    Last edited by BigWaylon; 07-24-19 at 22:08.

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    So if I submitted an efile form 1 two months ago, then I can submit another form 1 through efile (whether it be tomorrow or 20 months from now) with my trust and I do not have to submit all the paperwork, fingerprints and responsible persons paper?

    Am I reading your post correctly?
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    That's the way I always understood it. You have to have one clean 41F submission approved and then it was good for 2 years if no changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ace4059 View Post
    So if I submitted an efile form 1 two months ago, then I can submit another form 1 through efile (whether it be tomorrow or 20 months from now) with my trust and I do not have to submit all the paperwork, fingerprints and responsible persons paper?

    Am I reading your post correctly?
    No.

    That’s what some people, including a couple “gun trust lawyers”, initially said when 41P was released. When the final (41F) ruling came out, some still thought that. But the only thing you don’t have to submit is the documentation proving the entity exists. Photos and prints are always required.

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    OK, yes, that makes sense. I was remembering back to when this all was changing over. So if no change in 24 months your Cert. Letter takes the place of your Trust if no changes.

    So is it a continuous rollover type situation? IOW, if you did a 41F transfer Ser. # 1, then every 18 months you added an item with no changes to your Trust Res. Pers. it just keeps running? Or do they need a new Trust every 24 months regardless?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    OK, yes, that makes sense. I was remembering back to when this all was changing over. So if no change in 24 months your Cert. Letter takes the place of your Trust if no changes.

    So is it a continuous rollover type situation? IOW, if you did a 41F transfer Ser. # 1, then every 18 months you added an item with no changes to your Trust Res. Pers. it just keeps running? Or do they need a new Trust every 24 months regardless?
    All it says is an approval within the previous 24 months. That would make sense that it would be a reset of the clock with each successive approval. The document isn’t changing, so why resend it?

    I posted this info on ARF, and somebody gave this link:

    https://www.nationalguntrusts.com/bl...-documentation

    It lets you plug in your info and it’ll email you a letter. I don’t think I’d provide actual names/SNs to a random site, but you could use bogus info and change it once you get the format.

    Or use mine and provide your info. I might fill out the one at the link just to see what it says.

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    Thanks for the clarification.

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    I did an e-file Form 1 Trust in November, and it was approved April 17, 2019. Does this mean no new fingerprint cards and no new form 5320.23 (Responsible Person Questionnaire with photo)?
    Maj. USAR (Ret) 160th SOAR, 2/17 CAV
    NRA Life Member
    Black Mesa Ranch. Raising Fine Cattle and Horses in San Miguel County since 1879

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    Quote Originally Posted by OH58D View Post
    I did an e-file Form 1 Trust in November, and it was approved April 17, 2019. Does this mean no new fingerprint cards and no new form 5320.23 (Responsible Person Questionnaire with photo)?
    Nope.

    It only means no new copy of the trust needs to be uploaded, assuming you certify that it hasn’t changed.

    Photos, FPs and RPQs are always required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigWaylon View Post
    Nope.

    It only means no new copy of the trust needs to be uploaded, assuming you certify that it hasn’t changed.

    Photos, FPs and RPQs are always required.
    Yep, just got off the phone with the NFA branch and they confirmed that. No new upload of Trust, but new fingerprints and 5320.23 with photo. Does this mean they will be any faster not having to read thru the Trust?
    Maj. USAR (Ret) 160th SOAR, 2/17 CAV
    NRA Life Member
    Black Mesa Ranch. Raising Fine Cattle and Horses in San Miguel County since 1879

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