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Thread: Milspec FLC setup?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    I don’t know if you’re still active, but the updated ref was just publish with the changes to the qual. Mag changes are now a part of it and the whole thing is on one timer so they’re about to learn the hard way.


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    Now if we could just get COs to put their troops on pop up ranges instead of ALT-C to try to post better “metrics”.
    RLTW

    “That is why there isn't an AK chart.” -SteyrAUG
    “They eat tide pods also so what's your point?” Retrorevolver77

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Now if we could just get COs to put their troops on pop up ranges instead of ALT-C to try to post better “metrics”.
    Don’t even get me started - my resentment of the officer corps has only accelerated, in part because of stuff I’ve seen done with qual scores.


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  3. #13
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    Excellent points all around, gents. Jellybean, if I were serious about balls-out kitting-up to defend lardbody life and limb, I would have started with Militarymorons's excellent questionnaire--as it is, right now the studio apartment is such that I have plenty of loaded mags in cans on the "cover" side of my bed, which is right inside the door. Nothing to chase bad guys clearing because I'm the "barrier" and anybody who wants to play has to come to me past only one way in or out... though I eventually plan to add plates because You Never Know.

    I am serious about the historical thing, when I cut the check for my Garand I'll be asking the same question on WWII forums about kitting out for it; the intent is for myself, or anyone I'm teaching, to experience both the good points and the bad of it first-hand--to present "Then vs. Now" exercises, have the student do a representative course of fire with each then write a compare-and-contrast. (There's watching somebody else go at it, then there's doing it yourself.) Plus there's a bit of a "gaming" angle here, in that I intend to attempt the Marine ART Qual someday just to quantify how much I really suck, and I want to have the handicap of full combat load (well, ballast in place of grenades) so I can't "game it" in gym shorts and cross-trainers. I already tried googling FILBE, and while I know Ibiley is the prime contractor I couldn't get anything useful off their website, though I did just find the rig on eBay for $75. (And bookmarked to keep an eye on.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    I don’t know if you’re still active, but the updated ref was just publish with the changes to the qual. Mag changes are now a part of it and the whole thing is on one timer so they’re about to learn the hard way.
    Wake, is that ref available to us civvies too, or is it considered "sensitive"?
    Last edited by Diamondback; 08-06-19 at 23:37.
    You really have to ask why Conservatives have guns? Because Liberals block freeways, burn cities, throw Molotov cocktails, loot, turn over cop cars, and think this behavior is Socially Acceptable.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    I don’t know if you’re still active, but the updated ref was just publish with the changes to the qual. Mag changes are now a part of it and the whole thing is on one timer so they’re about to learn the hard way.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I am. I have read some of the details for the new qualifications, but I have not read them all or very familiar with them(I know, I know, BAD SNCO, no coffee for you!). That being said...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Now if we could just get COs to put their troops on pop up ranges instead of ALT-C to try to post better “metrics”.
    The ALT -C is being removed from the qualification standard and will only apply to deployed units or other units where a Pop up range is inaccessible due to not existing at their current operating location. So they got that part right. I may only be FA(and rocket artillery at that), but even we have seen a push in my last few units for "pop up qual only" were allowed as much as possible and ALT -C was not even allowed to be scheduled, so there is the mindset already in most places(at BDE and BN leadership believe it or not), to move away from it altogether.
    Last edited by ap1220; 08-07-19 at 01:16. Reason: included reply in quote, had to fix.
    "Warriors"

    Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.

    -Heraclitis

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ap1220 View Post
    The ALT -C is being removed from the qualification standard and will only apply to deployed units or other units where a Pop up range is inaccessible due to not existing at their current operating location. So they got that part right. I may only be FA(and rocket artillery at that), but even we have seen a push in my last few units for "pop up qual only" were allowed as much as possible and ALT -C was not even allowed to be scheduled, so there is the mindset already in most places(at BDE and BN leadership believe it or not), to move away from it altogether.
    Alt-C was already for circumstances that prevent use of a proper range. Says so right in the FM.

    TC 3-22.9 F5:

    “SECTION II – ALTERNATE QUALIFICATION COURSES
    F-14. Units should conduct weapon qualification on a standard record fire range. Convenience and comfort should not be the prime consideration when choosing a range.”

    And F9:

    “25-Meter Scaled Target Alternae Course
    Note. The 25-meter scaled target alternate course is used when a standard
    record fire or KD range is UNAVAILABLE for weapon qualification.”

    The manual has “unavailable” in bold, but I don’t know how to do that so I hit caps lock instead.
    RLTW

    “That is why there isn't an AK chart.” -SteyrAUG
    “They eat tide pods also so what's your point?” Retrorevolver77

  6. #16
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    Fair enough. I'll chalk that up to ignorance formed from an "ism" being in FA my whole career.
    "Warriors"

    Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.

    -Heraclitis

  7. #17
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    You really have to ask why Conservatives have guns? Because Liberals block freeways, burn cities, throw Molotov cocktails, loot, turn over cop cars, and think this behavior is Socially Acceptable.
    --unknown, memed by user "KeepnitReel" at Northwest Firearms

    The NRA: Fighting Democratic Party terrorists with military-style assault weapons since 1871. LIFE MEMBER

    No affiliation with Diamondback Firearms, or any other manufacturer/distributor/retailer.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    I think so. I could be wrong. I don’t mean to imply that I’m an expert on manuals. In fact, I only just learned that a helmet is, in fact, required, per the FM during qual. I always thought it was Commander’s discretion. Not sure how I breezed past that previously.

    I believe the last version had similar wording about Alt-C usage.

    ETA: the Alt-C will continue to have time constraints on individual tables with administrative pauses between. So, no mag changes on the clock. We count holes between tables to prevent further cheating.
    Last edited by 1168; 08-08-19 at 06:15. Reason: Add

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    For the M4, yes. However, TC 3-20.40 outlines the new qual procedures I believe. I’ve barely been able to even skim through it as I’m in the middle of PCSing from VA to CO.


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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Excellent points all around, gents. Jellybean, if I were serious about balls-out kitting-up to defend lardbody life and limb, I would have started with Militarymorons's excellent questionnaire-.....

    I am serious about the historical thing, when I cut the check for my Garand I'll be asking the same question on WWII forums about kitting out for it; the intent is for myself, or anyone I'm teaching, to experience both the good points and the bad of it first-hand...
    I hear ya mate. No hard feelings, if it came across that way.
    I just got flashbacks from other forums, f-book and other III%-er-ish oriented places when you said "FLC" and kind of went into react to contact mode...

    I've still got to get a proper Garand someday too, dammit...
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

    "...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop

    Proud multi-caliber ammosexual.

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