Using the LAW Gen3 folding adapter with an SBA3 or SBA4 brace

[tehpwnag3]

So I'm having lunch with a co-worker and he had an interesting take on this. When we take our guns out of our cases, what's the first thing we do? We check to make sure it's unloaded (or loaded), right? With a folded AR, this isn't exactly possible. So, to charge the weapon, check for empty, or to fire it, it has to be unfolded.

I dunno. Maybe I'm grasping at straws?

[Diamondback]

So I'm having lunch with a co-worker and he had an interesting take on this. When we take our guns out of our cases, what's the first thing we do? We check to make sure it's unloaded (or loaded), right? With a folded AR, this isn't exactly possible. So, to charge the weapon, check for empty, or to fire it, it has to be unfolded.

I dunno. Maybe I'm grasping at straws?

That's my one problem with the LAW folder, I can't even put in a chamber flag like a Hornady Rapid Rack.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

So I'm having lunch with a co-worker and he had an interesting take on this. When we take our guns out of our cases, what's the first thing we do? We check to make sure it's unloaded (or loaded), right? With a folded AR, this isn't exactly possible. So, to charge the weapon, check for empty, or to fire it, it has to be unfolded.

I dunno. Maybe I'm grasping at straws?

That's my one problem with the LAW folder, I can't even put in a chamber flag like a Hornady Rapid Rack.

No need to complicate things. The LAW folder is for storage or transport. Not using one because you can't verify it's loaded or not or because you can't use a chamber flag are both silly reasons not to take advantage of it's practical use.

[Diamondback]

No need to complicate things. The LAW folder is for storage or transport. Not using one because you can't verify it's loaded or not or because you can't use a chamber flag are both silly reasons not to take advantage of it's practical use.

Didn't say I wouldn't have one or use one--it's an integral part of my Briefcase Carry build, I just that I wish there were a way I could "have my cake and eat it too." TBH, I really use RR's more as side-chargers on "Ready Rack" iron than anything else.

[tehpwnag3]

You're right, but I wasn't looking to disparage the device. The Law folder is absolutely badass. I was actually looking to support an argument that the length should take into account the law folder unfolded as part of the total OAL since this is required for any kind of function.

No need to complicate things. The LAW folder is for storage or transport. Not using one because you can't verify it's loaded or not or because you can't use a chamber flag are both silly reasons not to take advantage of it's practical use.

[WickedWillis]

So I'm having lunch with a co-worker and he had an interesting take on this. When we take our guns out of our cases, what's the first thing we do? We check to make sure it's unloaded (or loaded), right? With a folded AR, this isn't exactly possible. So, to charge the weapon, check for empty, or to fire it, it has to be unfolded.

I dunno. Maybe I'm grasping at straws?

That's my one problem with the LAW folder, I can't even put in a chamber flag like a Hornady Rapid Rack.

I'll echo what Five_Point_Five_Six said;

If you are transporting the firearm with a folder you should already know what condition you put the weapon in before you put it in your bag, or crate, or whatever. If you do not, simply fold the brace or stock back into standard position and the charging handle.

If you are using it for a rapid deploy self defense weapon, well then you are training yourself to pull the weapon out, open the folder, and either charge the weapon or check the status at that time. You are not training to shoot the weapon folded, and if you are that's a really poor way to use this system. The Gen 3 can take it without blowing o-rings, but the older gens cannot.

Also if you are at a range that requires empty weapons to have a chamber flag, then simply have it ready like you would any other AR, with a flag in the chamber, unfolded.

I get that these are nit-picks, but they are pretty unnecessary ones too.

[WickedWillis]

You're right, but I wasn't looking to disparage the device. The Law folder is absolutely badass. I was actually looking to support an argument that the length should take into account the law folder unfolded as part of the total OAL since this is required for any kind of function.

I wonder how, or if being able to fire it folded comes into play at all in this situation though?

[tehpwnag3]

Because as I posted earlier, an AK doesn't have the same limitations. You can do everything with the brace folded or unfolded (except shoulder it, I suppose). This would define "artificial length" cited in the ATF letter. A folded AR should be considered disabled in the eyes of the ATF, and therefore should be unfolded for OAL--which is the OAL of a functioning weapon. Do you agree?

I wonder how, or if being able to fire it folded comes into play at all in this situation though?

[WickedWillis]

Because as I posted earlier, an AK doesn't have the same limitations. You can do everything with the brace folded or unfolded (except shoulder it, I suppose). This would define "artificial length" cited in the ATF letter. A folded AR should be considered disabled in the eyes of the ATF, and therefore should be unfolded for OAL--which is the OAL of a functioning weapon. Do you agree?

We are really just attempting to nail down without a shadow of a doubt what the ATF is declaring, and they are always intentionally vague. An AK would start at the actual end of the receiver, so the AR would to is what you are stating. Like I said earlier, that was not my understanding of it, and if I am wrong then so be it. It's not the first and certainly will not be the last time.

I'll get overly concerned as soon as I see a guy with an ATF hat coming up to me with measuring tape at the range I guess.

The word for word is; "Conversely, it is inappropriate to include a folding "stabilizing brace" accessory in the overall length measurement of a firearm because, unlike a rifle or shotgun, a stabilizing brace is not an element of either a statutory or regulatory definition of any firearm."

So adding a folding mechanism to a brace, that was not created AS a brace with a folding mechanism built in (Like the FS1913 by SB) is creating something technically unspecified in the letter.



ATF-folded-brace_Redacted_Page_1-768x1096 by Willis, on Flickr

[tehpwnag3]

Regarding in bold, I suppose only if you have a VFG installed.

You know, as I do the mental gymnastics of all this bureaucratic red tape, I can't help but be disgusted because of how a tenth of an inch can make all the difference between "good" and "not good". SMH!

We are really just attempting to nail down without a shadow of a doubt what the ATF is declaring, and they are always intentionally vague. An AK would start at the actual end of the receiver, so the AR would to is what you are stating. Like I said earlier, that was not my understanding of it, and if I am wrong then so be it. It's not the first and certainly will not be the last time.

I'll get overly concerned as soon as I see a guy with an ATF hat coming up to me with measuring tape at the range I guess.

The word for word is; "Conversely, it is inappropriate to include a folding "stabilizing brace" accessory in the overall length measurement of a firearm because, unlike a rifle or shotgun, a stabilizing brace is not an element of either a statutory or regulatory definition of any firearm."

So adding a folding mechanism to a brace, that was not created AS a brace with a folding mechanism built in (Like the FS1913 by SB) is creating something technically unspecified in the letter.



ATF-folded-brace_Redacted_Page_1-768x1096 by Willis, on Flickr