What Agency just granted STI a contract?

[Firefly]

How long has LAPD SWAT been using their 1911's?

I can sorta over look that as tradition.
Well first of all, LAPD SWAT has historically used 1911 autopistols since the 70s. At one point they were cash strapped and just used repurposed 1911s that they seized from thuggies. If they were of quality manufacture, they got used. They were rebuilt several times over until Kimber gave them a hell of a deal for S70 1911s with rails.

In a way its kinda boomer and status symbolic but at the same time its kinda renegade. If they wanted to keep S70 Kimbers (and yes Kimber does make some just not typically for you) then 9mm TLE/RLs I wouldnt have a problem with because that'd be 700 a gun.

But 2.5 large for something a G19 can do that requires more attention? Naaaaw....

I just see how the negatives far surpass any real or perceived positives

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

This makes me wonder. WHEN will Glock make a steel framed gun? Can you imagine how many steel framed G45/G17/G34s they would sell? That would almost certainly be the go-to gun for every shooting competitor and SOG team on earth. If they do it they should take care that it take normal G5 parts. And while they are at it they need to make a steel framed 10mm just for me.

[tn1911]

How long has LAPD SWAT been using their 1911's?

Basically since their inception.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...12_lapd/100477

[maximus83]

Basically since their inception.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...12_lapd/100477

Was rhetorical . A counter-example to the 2-year comment.

[Coal Dragger]

First of all I call BS on "head shots". I call extreme BS. You can, VERY EASILY, perform failure to stop or hostage drills with a Glock. That is giving too much power to the 1911 platform. This has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with status pieces. 2011s can be some nice guns but a 3 to 4K pistol? Plus armorer training? Plus proprietary magazines to do everything a Glock does with a moderately nicer trigger?

Give me a break. This is someone looking to spend money. Also absolutely NEVER talk to me about liability and the cost of a shot. NEVER.

Now....part of me is thinking that maybe they got closeout prices. Like 1500 dollars a pop. Extravagant but not full price. Okay...so account for two or three pieces an officer. USMS SOG isnt that big in the cosmic sense. Neither is LAPD SWAT but that would still be a hell of an expense compared to a more sensible gun.

I'm thinking they took a bite to be able tp say STI guns are seeing "action" but then again they tried 2011s for the military that went nowhere except AMU.

I just see waste here and how you mean to tell me they "need" 2011s. I've seen SOG in action. Left a good impression but they werent exactly Delta Force either.

I think I understand where you’re coming from on performance/dollar spent.... but I also sense a bit of one size fits all mentality, and Glock fanboy viewpoint creeping into your position. You use Glocks for work, you like the results they give you, and you’re putting in the work to exploit the potential of the pistol. I respect that.

Before I launch into a defense of this expenditure I will state that I have nothing against Glock handguns, they work well for the vast majority of users within the expected performance envelope they are expected to be used in. I’ve shot more than a few of them and compared to other striker fired pistols they’re not significantly better or worse for me than any other make, and the product support in accessories is second to none.

Having said that, at some point for a guy putting in the work to get good with his sidearm, a striker fired trigger mechanism is going to hold most of us back in certain performance categories. Not all mind you, but some that may or may not be important enough for every user to seriously consider a hardware change to address the performance issue. For example “low probability” shots at distances of 25 yards or more, whether you’re shooting B16’s and B8’s at 25 yards in a bullseye match, holding the 10 ring at 50 in a PPC match, or you’re in a bad spot and you only have 8” of dirt bag exposed at 33 yards that you need to try to put a round in to get the bad situation tipped in your favor.

I have a background in competition bullseye shooting. There are zero striker fired pistols competitive in that game. Zero. Even if the mechanical accuracy and ammunition are up to the task, no one is campaigning a G34 at Camp Perry. The trigger just won’t allow competitive scores. The 1911, purpose built M9’s, and various Olympic grade rimfire pistols reign supreme for a reason. Take a good shooter running a striker fired gun, and put him on a pistol with equal mechanical accuracy potential and a well tuned SA trigger and his scores will go up. The tool is easier to use and takes work load off the shooter. Low probability shots become higher probability shots.

We can argue whether a SWAT team or other specialist organizations realistically need bullseye accurate pistols (probably not), but if you can find one that runs right you do have an advantage in certain situations if the shooter is up to it, with few significant downsides in the majority of situations where the sidearm will be used. As a general issue sidearm for patrol officers, soldiers, Marines etc a tuned up 2011 with a nice crisp trigger is probably a liability particularly if that is their primary weapon, and their job frequently involves going hands on with dim witted, uncooperative people that need to be detained.

[yoni]

I have a very close friend that was in CAG for 2 decades and they used to run high end 1911's and when they switched to Glocks they were able to buy these pistols.

SAS uses SIG's. YAMAM uses Glocks.

A long time ago my issue pistol was a Hi Power, as a result I have a lot of Hi Power love and have 2 high end custom Hi Powers Cylinder and Slide and Novak. I then was issued a Glock which is a good pistol.

I now have big time CZ P09/07 love. I have seen a P09 in a rest shoot a 1.35 inch group at 50 yards.
I would say as a guy that still goes down range and as a tax payer a CZ P09 sent to Cajun would cost about $900 and would be a better pistol for these units.

[Firefly]

Wow.....

Take all of that and replace it with "Basic Patrol" and see how far it goes.

Unless they've made some radical changes to 2011s then....oof.

USMS SOG is impressive bit they aren't like Delta Force or whatever. They arent going to get as much out of these guns. And if you cant do pistol things with a Glock then it is very much a software issue.

2011s will never be as reliable. Its cops with a new toy. Plain and simple.
Once it actually happens and guys dont lube, guys dont do this or that and toss their shit after a 14 hour day, etc etc etc someone will say "Why cant we just use glocks?"

I wont lie....fancy, high end guns are neat and if I got to play with one all day without having to pay for it I would be all for it. But I like Glocks because I am a cheap date and an easy lay. And if you told me I had to maintain a bull barrel 2011 after every range day or whatever; it would start to cut into my dirty chinese cartoon and beer time. Glocks let you cheat.

I competed PPC matches for nigh 20 years with a Glock. I think I'll be okay.

Again....2 years. How long did the USMC 45 CQB last before they got Glocks?

[HKGuns]

I'm biased, I own exactly ZERO gLoCk's out of a very large number of pistola's.

gLoCk is not even close to the only answer in the world of pistols. If it were, there would be no reason for other companies to produce pistols. I think some of the folks here are in danger of being gLoCk Kool-Aid drinkers. I often refer to gLoCk as the pistol for the serious trailer trash shooter. Trigger absolutely blows, polymer feels cheap in the hand, controls are ridiculous and it has no soul.

Flame on all you gLoCk lovers.

[jsbhike]

These are completely new guns from STI with dave Dawson driving the ship. Not close out. And the MSRP is $2500. Safe to say that’s not what these organizations paid for them. STI of 2011 is doing its damnedest to make sure it’s not the STI of 5+ years ago.

At one point STI was taking the Barrett position and not dealing with California agencies.

[Firefly]

Was rhetorical . A counter-example to the 2-year comment.

1911s were because when it was still called Special Weapons Attack Team, a lot of 1911 familiarity abounded.

2011s are expensive for a reason

At one point STI was taking the Barrett position and not dealing with California agencies.

Yep. high cap 2011s for me but not for thee

I'm biased, I own exactly ZERO gLoCk's out of a very large number of pistola's.

gLoCk is not even close to the only answer in the world of pistols. If it were, there would be no reason for other companies to produce pistols. I think some of the folks here are in danger of being gLoCk Kool-Aid drinkers. I often refer to gLoCk as the pistol for the serious trailer trash shooter. Trigger absolutely blows, polymer feels cheap in the hand, controls are ridiculous and it has no soul.

Flame on all you gLoCk lovers.

I like Glock because it works. HK works too.

If you told me I couldnt have Glocks anymore, I'd likely use a USP Compact with LEM light trigger