What Agency just granted STI a contract?

[MegademiC]

Im curious to see how the reliability of these things are.

I'm biased, I own exactly ZERO gLoCk's out of a very large number of pistola's.

gLoCk is not even close to the only answer in the world of pistols. If it were, there would be no reason for other companies to produce pistols. I think some of the folks here are in danger of being gLoCk Kool-Aid drinkers. I often refer to gLoCk as the pistol for the serious trailer trash shooter. Trigger absolutely blows, polymer feels cheap in the hand, controls are ridiculous and it has no soul.

Flame on all you gLoCk lovers.

This is true (except I dont get the ridiculous controls comment). Glocks are a zero-luxury ugly pistol.
But they work and get the job done. There are multiple poly guns that are “right answers” right now.
I would be extremely hesitant to use a 2011 for serious use for reliability reasons as Ive seen so far.

[Coal Dragger]

Wow.....

Take all of that and replace it with "Basic Patrol" and see how far it goes.

Unless they've made some radical changes to 2011s then....oof.

USMS SOG is impressive bit they aren't like Delta Force or whatever. They arent going to get as much out of these guns. And if you cant do pistol things with a Glock then it is very much a software issue.

2011s will never be as reliable. Its cops with a new toy. Plain and simple.
Once it actually happens and guys dont lube, guys dont do this or that and toss their shit after a 14 hour day, etc etc etc someone will say "Why cant we just use glocks?"

I wont lie....fancy, high end guns are neat and if I got to play with one all day without having to pay for it I would be all for it. But I like Glocks because I am a cheap date and an easy lay. And if you told me I had to maintain a bull barrel 2011 after every range day or whatever; it would start to cut into my dirty chinese cartoon and beer time. Glocks let you cheat.

I competed PPC matches for nigh 20 years with a Glock. I think I'll be okay.

Again....2 years. How long did the USMC 45 CQB last before they got Glocks?

On the 2011 front, from what I have been able to read and listen to on various Podcasts a few things have happened. For one STI is no longer the only game in town for frames, the patent expired, so there are others available and my understanding is that has resulted in some improvements to the guns from STI as well as their competitors. The other thing is that STI is no longer the only source of magazines, and the aftermarket was cleaning their clock on magazine reliability, forcing STI to get serious about magazines that work right. So like any other product, increased competition has forced everyone to get better.

I still think the 2011 guns are better in .38 Super/9X23, and .45 ACP from a reliability standpoint since the frame size and original feeding geometry is based on cartridges of that length. Wilson Combat is probably onto something with their EDC X9 frame and magazines, from what I have read those guns just flat out run.

[lsllc]

The biggest problem with 2011s has always been magazines, not so much the gun itself, other than those hand-fitted for extreme accuracy.

MBX changed that. Now STI has upped their game to compete. Now you can get a $45 STI magazine that works as well as a Glock magazine.

Sure, you can perform to an acceptable level with a Glock. 99.9999% of shooters will never reach top level with a Glock.

Those achieving acceptable performance with a Glock, I guarantee you can perform better with a 2011. There is a reason why 2011s dominate practical shooting. Once you’ve maxed out scores with a Glock or similar gun, you can make leaps with a better gun. You cannot buy skill, but you can buy performance. If any group of people outshoots their guns, it’s the practical shooting disciplines. Guys on forums talk about how many thousand rounds their Glocks go, when practical shooters put thousands a month through their guns. Glock guys on forums talk, but practical shooters put videos out there. Not to brag, but to improve through analysis.

2011s aren’t perfect, but they are closer than Glocks. A kid I know was a Glock shooter for some time because he idolized Vogel. He had around 100k through a 24 and made A class. Now he’s shooting a 2011 and winning majors having only owned it a few weeks.


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[YVK]

I'm biased, I own exactly ZERO gLoCk's out of a very large number of pistola's.

gLoCk is not even close to the only answer in the world of pistols. If it were, there would be no reason for other companies to produce pistols. I think some of the folks here are in danger of being gLoCk Kool-Aid drinkers. I often refer to gLoCk as the pistol for the serious trailer trash shooter. Trigger absolutely blows, polymer feels cheap in the hand, controls are ridiculous and it has no soul.

Flame on all you gLoCk lovers.

Too bad you don't have any Glocks. I've a Grayguns P30 with a short reset and short pre-travel sitting in the safe doing nothing, maybe we could have figured a trade or something. Anyway, that's besides the question I wanted to ask: do you ever get confused which letter to capitalize and which do not in a word "Glock"?

[lsllc]

Too bad you don't have any Glocks. I've a Grayguns P30 with a short reset and short pre-travel sitting in the safe doing nothing, maybe we could have figured a trade or something. Anyway, that's besides the question I wanted to ask: do you ever get confused which letter to capitalize and which do not in a word "Glock"?

LEM or DA/SA?


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[26 Inf]

Three words: 'Indian, not Arrow.'

Glocks are definitely not the only pistols around, especially for folks who shoot a lot of rounds, but there are too many other good, accurate pistols available that don't require the armorer service and maintenance as 1911's, etc.

The 2011 choice seems to be akin to pilots wearing flight suits for non-flight related activities 'hey, look at me.'

I'd also be willing to bet that some 'gatekeeper' in the procurement process had a chubby for the pistol. Happens all the time in LE.

[lsllc]

Three words: 'Indian, not Arrow.'

Glocks are definitely not the only pistols around, especially for folks who shoot a lot of rounds, but there are too many other good, accurate pistols available that don't require the armorer service and maintenance as 1911's, etc.

The 2011 choice seems to be akin to pilots wearing flight suits for non-flight related activities 'hey, look at me.'

I'd also be willing to bet that some 'gatekeeper' in the procurement process had a chubby for the pistol. Happens all the time in LE.

If you hear the story behind it, one of those responsible for solicitation stumbles upon STI at a trade show and was interested. STI sent them three pistols to test. I believe they put a ridiculous number of rounds down the three pistols...something like 20k each. There were no broken parts, no maintenance, and scores went up something ridiculous. The committee in charge of selecting a pistol voted nearly unanimously for the STI. One person voted Glock. There were Glocks, Sigs, and all the usual suspects in their trial.

Maintenance on 1911s and especially applicable to the 2011 is overblown. A flat-wire recoil spring lasts 10,000 rounds. Hammer springs, main springs, etc last even longer. Extractors last significantly longer than they once did thanks to better machining and metallurgy.

A good Indian always benefits from a superior arrow.




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[Pappabear]

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24...i-2011-pistols

That guys info mercial before he started talking about the gun hurt my brain. I am looking into these guns but break it down quicker. Jesus.

PB

[Pappabear]

When has the COST of something EVER slowed a Government Agency down?
And if it's a better tool for the job, why not?

I happen to have both the DVC-P and Staccato P pistols. The DVC-P in particular is like cheating it is so easy to shoot rapidly and accurately.
I am not sure how or IF volume of fire applies to LE, but I am able to put 5 rds. in 5" on a USPSA target offhand barricade at 100 yds.

Agreed. You have to ask yourself. If your in charge of taking El Chapo to the USA, what gun do you want. And you have been driving a SA Pro for the last ten years.

I’m betting STI 2011. I would and I own a Pro and not a STI ( for now).

PB

[YVK]

LEM or DA/SA?


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LEM. DA/SA doesn't have a reduced pre-travel mod available, factory or otherwise. This was my first, and for some time the only, polymer HK. That class swell to half dozen and now is back to a number of one. Still nine holsters and some 20 mags to support it . This gun is going nowhere till all that stuff is gone, which is probably next panic buy or something. Unless some cool unit adopts the P30 and they come into a demand...



Back to the original question: has anyone here shot with a USMS SOG member or two, as to making an informed opinion about those men and women capabilities and needs? Or we're just doing an improv about softwares, indians, arrows, needs, wants and such?