Alternatives to the NRA?

[jsbhike]

Nothing new and if you think that is their power source you're fooling yourself and are confused about how Washington works. Its about number of members, members that vote and can be proved to vote, money and good lobbyists.

I didn't say it was anything new.

How is having members being told to vote for anti-2nd Amendment candidates (with proof those members will do it), members giving money to backers anti-2nd Amendment laws, and lobbying for all of that going to reach a pro 2nd Amendment outcome?

[fledge]

Firearms Policy Coalition

They are growing and vocal. Active in the courts.

https://www.firearmspolicy.org

[themonk]

I didn't say it was anything new.

How is having members being told to vote for anti-2nd Amendment candidates (with proof those members will do it), members giving money to backers anti-2nd Amendment laws, and lobbying for all of that going to reach a pro 2nd Amendment outcome?

Its not worth arguing about. I dont know how old you are or how long you have been in the gun world but in 2012 20 children between six and seven years old got killed in a mass shooting. 20 little kids. Let that sink in.

There was no gun legislation that came out of that event which is mind boggling if you think about it. Especially with a Democratic President and a Democratic Senate. That full stop was a product of the NRA. The NRA is the one to thank for that, specifically David Keene who was president at the time.

There are a bunch of people that want to pit different 2nd amendment groups against each other. If you want to be one of those people, that's fine. As I said above if you care about the 2nd amendment you should join all them and give them all money. But as a news flash, if we lose the NRA its over. Like game over. There are those that will sit here and say that's not the case and other groups will fill in. Those people are completely ignorant about how Washington works.

[THCDDM4]

I support every pro second amendment group there is. Nationally and in my home state of CO.

Can’t have enough dogs in This fight.

The NRA is far from perfect, but very necessary.

There is no viable alternative to the NRA, currently.

As members, we need to push for some real changes to be made from the top down. The leadership, if you can call it that, is atrocious right now.

[jsbhike]

Its not worth arguing about. I dont know how old you are or how long you have been in the gun world but in 2012 20 children between six and seven years old got killed in a mass shooting. 20 little kids. Let that sink in.

There was no gun legislation that came out of that event which is mind boggling if you think about it. Especially with a Democratic President and a Democratic Senate. That full stop was a product of the NRA. The NRA is the one to thank for that, specifically David Keene who was president at the time.

There are a bunch of people that want to pit different 2nd amendment groups against each other. If you want to be one of those people, that's fine. As I said above if you care about the 2nd amendment you should join all them and give them all money. But as a news flash, if we lose the NRA its over. Like game over. There are those that will sit here and say that's not the case and other groups will fill in. Those people are completely ignorant about how Washington works.

I am old enough to remember NRA claiming Ronald Reagan was a staunch 2nd Amendment advocate after his role in California's Mulford Act through 2 presidential elections and then continuing to make the claim after his several other post 84 antigun moves.

Old enough to remember that they endorsed George Bush in 1988 after he voted for GCA 68 (which they supported and have made millions off of ever since) although(surprisingly) after his 1989 semi auto ban they didn't back him in 1992.

I remember them telling me Bob Dole was always a friend over gun owners during the 1990's while I was able to go back to American Rifleman issues from the early 1980's stating how bad Bob Dole was for pushing a 21 day waiting period.

In 2000 and 2004 the NRA told me how great Bush II was all while he campaigned for continuing the 1994 semiauto ban. He didn't get it, so he had to settle for piggy backing off his dad's 1989 ban, filing an amicus brief opposing Heller, and increasing ITAR regulations and cost.

2008 NRA told me to vote for John “one of the premier flag carriers for the enemies of the Second Amendment” McCain and all while his campaign finance reform had part of their website shut down close to election time since he wasn't too wild about the 1st Amendment either.

2012 the NRA told me to vote for MA semi auto ban Romney.

2016 they told me to vote for Donald Trump who stated in his book his support for semi auto bans as well as being friends with, and giving financial aid to, a large number of politicians NRA had told me were out to screw the 2nd Amendment.

And that is just recent POTUS, the same issues are there with congressional office holders on down to local officials.

No argument at all. As pointed out by Orth, the NRA has supported gun control since 1871. That isn't pitting one group against another, that is just the facts of the matter on what NRA advocates.

2012....are you sure that was NRA solely doing that? Nothing due to angry citizens? No other groups involved at all?

While there were other problem children, I also recall Joe Manchin of West Virginia being one of the senators pushing for gun control. I also recall him being an NRA A rated and endorsed candidate while he got a D or F rating from GOA.

So even if we assume they were solely to thank for killing any 2012 threat, they played a role in getting many those threats in place.

[Voodoochild]

If you live in VA check out VCDL. If not in VA check out your grassroots organizations. On national level Second Amendment Foundation, Firearms Policy Coalition.

[Bulletdog]

I am old enough to remember NRA claiming Ronald Reagan was a staunch 2nd Amendment advocate after his role in California's Mulford Act through 2 presidential elections and then continuing to make the claim after his several other post 84 antigun moves.

Old enough to remember that they endorsed George Bush in 1988 after he voted for GCA 68 (which they supported and have made millions off of ever since) although(surprisingly) after his 1989 semi auto ban they didn't back him in 1992.

I remember them telling me Bob Dole was always a friend over gun owners during the 1990's while I was able to go back to American Rifleman issues from the early 1980's stating how bad Bob Dole was for pushing a 21 day waiting period.

In 2000 and 2004 the NRA told me how great Bush II was all while he campaigned for continuing the 1994 semiauto ban. He didn't get it, so he had to settle for piggy backing off his dad's 1989 ban, filing an amicus brief opposing Heller, and increasing ITAR regulations and cost.

2008 NRA told me to vote for John “one of the premier flag carriers for the enemies of the Second Amendment” McCain and all while his campaign finance reform had part of their website shut down close to election time since he wasn't too wild about the 1st Amendment either.

2012 the NRA told me to vote for MA semi auto ban Romney.

2016 they told me to vote for Donald Trump who stated in his book his support for semi auto bans as well as being friends with, and giving financial aid to, a large number of politicians NRA had told me were out to screw the 2nd Amendment.

And that is just recent POTUS, the same issues are there with congressional office holders on down to local officials.

No argument at all. As pointed out by Orth, the NRA has supported gun control since 1871. That isn't pitting one group against another, that is just the facts of the matter on what NRA advocates.

2012....are you sure that was NRA solely doing that? Nothing due to angry citizens? No other groups involved at all?

While there were other problem children, I also recall Joe Manchin of West Virginia being one of the senators pushing for gun control. I also recall him being an NRA A rated and endorsed candidate while he got a D or F rating from GOA.

So even if we assume they were solely to thank for killing any 2012 threat, they played a role in getting many those threats in place.

So you see the NRA as a wholly anti-gun organization that does us no good whatsoever? We should not support them? You'd rather they didn't exist anymore?

[jsbhike]

So you see the NRA as a wholly anti-gun organization that does us no good whatsoever? We should not support them? You'd rather they didn't exist anymore?

Predominately anti 2nd amendment.

The NRA safety programs have done well. If their political segments had done half as much as their safety training people towards making their actual activities match their advertising I would be able to call up BCM (likely not Colt) and have a select fire M4 delivered to my house via USPS with no legal entanglements.

How is donating money and free advertising to anti 2nd amendment candidates (see previous) or buying LaPierre a 5 million dollar house restoring the 2nd Amendment?

I don't like anti 2nd Amendment activities or fraudulent advertising of any kind and yes I think we would be better off without either negative.

I will ask you the same question posed earlier:

"How is having members being told to vote for anti-2nd Amendment candidates (with proof those members will do it), members giving money to backers anti-2nd Amendment laws, and lobbying for all of that going to reach a pro 2nd Amendment outcome?"

And 1 other question puzzles me. Considering all the info that has came to light on NRA activities (ranging from support for anti gun candidates and laws to their executives handling of finances) why is the solution to keep giving them money and try to get others to do the same? Does anyone repeatedly get bad service from any other business, but you still support and try to get others to do so? Use a restaurant as an example. Does anyone really go in and pay for a meal every week or so (that is never what they advertise/what you order) thinking that will cause them to live up to their end of the deal?

[ramairthree]

Nobody comes close to their lobbying power and nobody is going to come along and match it.

A handful decided it was their cookie jar, and couldn’t keep their hands out it.

There is no going back to the reputation or power they had at this point.

[jack crab]

There is no alternative to the NRA because no other organization is in their league. They are the proverbial 800 pound gorilla.

I was reviewing several websites that describe various attributes of organizations. In nearly every category the NRA was 10's or 100's of times what other organizations are doing. For example, Brady is like 50k members. NRA is 5 million. Advocacy budgets were $100k for the anti's and millions for the NRA. The GOA and the rest are in the same little boat with thousands of members and $100k's of funds.

Now, once you have your NRA membership in place, then there are certainly other supplemental organizations. I am in Virginia and VCDL does things here that no one else can. However, I would never withdraw from the NRA and rely solely on VCDL. Likewise, GoA and some others do well funding litigation. The NRA does a lot better on the legislative side.

The fight is big enough for many pro-RKBA groups to attack on multiple fronts. It is not a one or nothing proposition.

The whole notion that "the NRA didn't send me my free hat so F-em, I am not even going to support the 2A" is beyond me.