Alternatives to the NRA?

[Bulletdog]

Predominately anti 2nd amendment.

I understand your point of view better now. If someone, or some business entity, does not see everything 100% your way 100% of the time, then they are dead to you. Your enemy. Got it. We went through this with Trump too. Compromise, negotiation, and understanding the POV of those around you is not in your wheelhouse.

There is no human on this planet that is going to agree with you 100% of the time, and further, do everything you want, every time you want it. The NRA is the only thing standing between you and the dems having their way with you. Your body guard is NOT perfect. Your body guard has made many mistakes and will make many more. Your body guard has made decisions and compromises that you don't agree with. This does not make your bodyguard your enemy. This makes your body guard human. In this case a whole bunch of humans, who with all their shortcomings are still doing something to stop the tide of socialism sweeping this country. Could they do more? Hell yes. Could they do some things better? Absolutely. Are there corrupt and bad people in the organization? Yes there are. There are also corrupt cops out in the world, and there are crooked police chiefs helping the socialists. So should we say all law enforcement is bad and the whole lot of them should be disbanded and fired? I say no. I say we eliminate the bad cops and prosecute them for their crimes, and praise the good cops and all the good they do. I say we work to improve the system and make it better and more effective instead of complaining about the clear and obvious failures of the system. Because a few cops have done bad things, does not mean we shouldn't have law enforcement in our society and it doesn't mean all of them are dirty. The dirty ones are dirty. The rest of them are fantastic human beings and they are on our side.

The NRA stands in the way of the socialists who would like to disarm us. That is why the left cries and complains about the NRA on a daily basis. Which side are you on? Which side is your attitude and your posts in this thread helping. If the NRA falls because people feel the way you do, the dems will literally be crying tears of joy and dancing in the streets. If the NRA gets stronger and makes fewer mistakes going forward, what do you think the dems will do? Help your brother up man. Don't kick him in the balls because mistakes have been made. Kick your enemy in the balls.

[themonk]

I understand your point of view better now. If someone, or some business entity, does not see everything 100% your way 100% of the time, then they are dead to you. Your enemy. Got it. We went through this with Trump too. Compromise, negotiation, and understanding the POV of those around you is not in your wheelhouse.

There is no human on this planet that is going to agree with you 100% of the time, and further, do everything you want, every time you want it. The NRA is the only thing standing between you and the dems having their way with you. Your body guard is NOT perfect. Your body guard has made many mistakes and will make many more. Your body guard has made decisions and compromises that you don't agree with. This does not make your bodyguard your enemy. This makes your body guard human. In this case a whole bunch of humans, who with all their shortcomings are still doing something to stop the tide of socialism sweeping this country. Could they do more? Hell yes. Could they do some things better? Absolutely. Are there corrupt and bad people in the organization? Yes there are. There are also corrupt cops out in the world, and there are crooked police chiefs helping the socialists. So should we say all law enforcement is bad and the whole lot of them should be disbanded and fired? I say no. I say we eliminate the bad cops and prosecute them for their crimes, and praise the good cops and all the good they do. I say we work to improve the system and make it better and more effective instead of complaining about the clear and obvious failures of the system. Because a few cops have done bad things, does not mean we shouldn't have law enforcement in our society and it doesn't mean all of them are dirty. The dirty ones are dirty. The rest of them are fantastic human beings and they are on our side.

The NRA stands in the way of the socialists who would like to disarm us. That is why the left cries and complains about the NRA on a daily basis. Which side are you on? Which side is your attitude and your posts in this thread helping. If the NRA falls because people feel the way you do, the dems will literally be crying tears of joy and dancing in the streets. If the NRA gets stronger and makes fewer mistakes going forward, what do you think the dems will do? Help your brother up man. Don't kick him in the balls because mistakes have been made. Kick your enemy in the balls.

Well said!

[jsbhike]

I understand your point of view better now. If someone, or some business entity, does not see everything 100% your way 100% of the time, then they are dead to you. Your enemy. Got it. We went through this with Trump too. Compromise, negotiation, and understanding the POV of those around you is not in your wheelhouse.

There is no human on this planet that is going to agree with you 100% of the time, and further, do everything you want, every time you want it. The NRA is the only thing standing between you and the dems having their way with you. Your body guard is NOT perfect. Your body guard has made many mistakes and will make many more. Your body guard has made decisions and compromises that you don't agree with. This does not make your bodyguard your enemy. This makes your body guard human. In this case a whole bunch of humans, who with all their shortcomings are still doing something to stop the tide of socialism sweeping this country. Could they do more? Hell yes. Could they do some things better? Absolutely. Are there corrupt and bad people in the organization? Yes there are. There are also corrupt cops out in the world, and there are crooked police chiefs helping the socialists. So should we say all law enforcement is bad and the whole lot of them should be disbanded and fired? I say no. I say we eliminate the bad cops and prosecute them for their crimes, and praise the good cops and all the good they do. I say we work to improve the system and make it better and more effective instead of complaining about the clear and obvious failures of the system. Because a few cops have done bad things, does not mean we shouldn't have law enforcement in our society and it doesn't mean all of them are dirty. The dirty ones are dirty. The rest of them are fantastic human beings and they are on our side.

The NRA stands in the way of the socialists who would like to disarm us. That is why the left cries and complains about the NRA on a daily basis. Which side are you on? Which side is your attitude and your posts in this thread helping. If the NRA falls because people feel the way you do, the dems will literally be crying tears of joy and dancing in the streets. If the NRA gets stronger and makes fewer mistakes going forward, what do you think the dems will do? Help your brother up man. Don't kick him in the balls because mistakes have been made. Kick your enemy in the balls.

I don't think anything ever has been or ever will be perfect. I am also well acquainted with the "perfect is the enemy of good" line when people are acting as apologists for NRA actions that go far beyond imperfections.

So, once again:

"How is having members being told to vote for anti-2nd Amendment candidates (with proof those members will do it), members giving money to backers anti-2nd Amendment laws, and lobbying for all of that going to reach a pro 2nd Amendment outcome?"

And what other businesses that fail to deliver as advertised do you keep pouring money in to as well as encouraging other people to do the same?

Let's toss in another question. Democrats are 2nd Amendment opponents. Can you elaborate as to why Republicans that have brought about anti 2nd Amendment laws aren't bad?


On the too big too fail argument, police departments have been dissolved due to corruption:

https://www.coloradoan.com/story/new...-town/5416073/

That is not the only instance of that I have read about where other city officials had enough and shut the operation down either. In other cases corrupt departments have been dissolved due to lawsuits hitting the town hard enough they couldn't absorb it any more. While not originating in departments, the corruption manifesting itself in speed traps drew the attention of the state of Ohio who then shut the operations down:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio

While I strongly doubt every single person in those operations (or the NRA) are corrupt, it is an unfortunate fact that 1 bad apple spoils the whole bunch...and that is the entire phrase, not the chopped off version used by apologists for what ever their cause is. The far too common scenario is to keep the rotted in place where they are free to have a deleterious effect on all including those who are good and have to deal with the stench and filth of the rotten.

Also note, that in each instance another agency took over policing those areas. If there is a need, someone can and will fill it. When you go with the too big to fail, you are allowing rot to keep going while preventing better from possibly flourishing. On a similar note, GM and the others should have been bought at auction around 2008 instead of the bailouts.

There is a need for what the NRA claims to be, but clearly doesn't follow through on and getting to the latter isn't going to happened by keeping the diseased parts laying around.

[MountainRaven]

The NRA is the scapegoat of the gun-grabbers. The NRA is a pathetically small lobbying organization in the grand scheme of things. Propaganda lauding and scapegoating the NRA both make hay of the NRA's supposed grasp over Washington DC, but they're but tiny, tiny bugs in that great big swamp - and neither side has any reason to deflate the myth.

The NRA contributed $873,071 to political candidates in 2018.

Bloomberg contributed $95,907,318 in the same year.

Bloomberg ranks #1 in political contributions. The NRA ranks #543.

The #1 recipient of contributions from the NRA received $15,800.

Bloomberg's #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 recipients each received more.

In lobbying, the AARP outspends the NRA by a ratio of 10:1.

And you want to know what else?

Gun rights organizations have, over twenty-eight years (1990-2018), spent more than gun control groups by a factor of 10:1 on campaign contributions. Gun rights organizations over the eight years from 2010 to 2018 have outspent gun control groups on outside spending by nearly 10:1. And they outspent gun control groups by about 7:1 in lobbying from 1998-2018.

The NRA likes to say that they punch above their weight when it comes to lobbying, but it seems to me that the Brady Bunch ought to get that trophy.

So what have we gotten from the NRA? A stalemate at a cost ratio of 10:1.

Maybe it's time to put that 10:1 money into an organization that will actually get something done.

[SteyrAUG]

I don't think anything ever has been or ever will be perfect. I am also well acquainted with the "perfect is the enemy of good" line when people are acting as apologists for NRA actions that go far beyond imperfections.

So, once again:

"How is having members being told to vote for anti-2nd Amendment candidates (with proof those members will do it), members giving money to backers anti-2nd Amendment laws, and lobbying for all of that going to reach a pro 2nd Amendment outcome?"

And what other businesses that fail to deliver as advertised do you keep pouring money in to as well as encouraging other people to do the same?

Let's toss in another question. Democrats are 2nd Amendment opponents. Can you elaborate as to why Republicans that have brought about anti 2nd Amendment laws aren't bad?

While I don't agree with your position or evaluation of the NRA, I understand your position. And while I personally believe $35 is money well spent for what the NRA is vs. what we wish they would be, I understand why you personally can't get onboard.

Nobody owes the NRA their support, nobody owes the Republican party their vote. And it isn't a matter of YOU needing to understand why they should be supported, it is a matter of THEM understanding why they need YOUR support. I get that and there have been times when I also wrestled with the same conflict.

The worst was when the Republicans ran John Effin McCain against Obama. In one of the most important elections in recent memory they gave us what might be the worst possible candidate ever. All through the Bush administration McCain proved over and over again that he was an unreliable and vindictive individual, but once he got the nomination people acted like we all OWED him our vote.

I couldn't believe it, I can remember back around 2005 asking people on TOS if it became Hillary vs. McCain who would you vote for and to a man almost everyone said that was a ridiculous scenario that would never happen. I was criticized for even suggesting it and many said I was taking pot shots at the Republican party by even suggesting the possibility.

[SteyrAUG]

Maybe it's time to put that 10:1 money into an organization that will actually get something done.

We just need to know who that would be. Even if all NRA members moved to the GOA, I'm not confident anything would change or improve and there are lots of reasons why it would get worse.

[jsbhike]

While I don't agree with your position or evaluation of the NRA, I understand your position. And while I personally believe $35 is money well spent for what the NRA is vs. what we wish they would be, I understand why you personally can't get onboard.

Nobody owes the NRA their support, nobody owes the Republican party their vote. And it isn't a matter of YOU needing to understand why they should be supported, it is a matter of THEM understanding why they need YOUR support. I get that and there have been times when I also wrestled with the same conflict.

The worst was when the Republicans ran John Effin McCain against Obama. In one of the most important elections in recent memory they gave us what might be the worst possible candidate ever. All through the Bush administration McCain proved over and over again that he was an unreliable and vindictive individual, but once he got the nomination people acted like we all OWED him our vote.

I couldn't believe it, I can remember back around 2005 asking people on TOS if it became Hillary vs. McCain who would you vote for and to a man almost everyone said that was a ridiculous scenario that would never happen. I was criticized for even suggesting it and many said I was taking pot shots at the Republican party by even suggesting the possibility.

That is a good summary of where I am and as someone else mentioned earlier, their endorsements are never with caveats about how bad the candidate is or making the best of a bad situation, but always some gross over exaggeration of what can be expected and totally opposite of every observed action of that candidate.

McCain is a great example of that. McCain vs. Obama on positions was an extremely fine hair to be splitting. At least with Obama there was extreme(and well justified) opposition to everything he did. As we have seen repeatedly with GOP politicians, their anti 2nd Amendment actions get little opposition. If supreme Court picks were the path to freedom then we should have had smooth saoling since the 1960's also.

[morbidbattlecry]

I'm a member of the NRA and GOA. I hate the NRA in a lot of ways. But as someone said they are the 800lb gorilla in the room. People not joining they NRA and leaving are just want the anti's want.

[jsbhike]

Do any openly anti-gun groups have trouble with their leaders backing pro 2nd Amendment legislation? Or any of the politicians they stump for and donate money to introducing or co sponsoring legislation to repeal anti gun laws?

[Det-Sog]

I am a life member of the NRA. I will ONLY give money now directly to the ILA branch. ALL of that money goes straight to the hill for the fight. NONE of that money goes to Wayne. The ILA is the part of the NRA that gets stuff done. The ILA is still effective and does good.

I just became a LIFE MEMBER OF GOA. The NRA can chest thump all that they want, but they dropped the ball with the 1994 Klinton AWB. They will drop the ball AGAIN when the AWB of 2021 makes it to the presidents desk, by ALLOWING it to GET to the POTUS' desk. IF another AWB is stopped, IMHO it will be the GOA that stops it...

BTW, the "new" definition of an assault weapon is ANY semi-auto that will ACCEPT a box magazine larger than 10 rounds... Welcome back to 1935. Kiss your Glock buh-bye.

You can make installment payments INTEREST FREE for as little as $20 a month to become a life member of the GOA... Just saying.