Handgun or pistol defense against bear attacks

[georgeib]

It doesn't look amazing here. Clear Gel isn't ideal but I don't think it invalidates the relative comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXF5HOQz5WY&t=425s

You’re right… clear gel testing might not spell the entire performance package of 9mm hardcast ammo. All we can really lean heavily on is real world engagements on actual living tissue (see above posted article highlighting 4 known/documented uses)

Just FYI. Underwood 9mm with hardcast bullets penetrated 40+" in this guy's test. And the Buffalo Bore went through all three 16" gel blocks exceeding 48" of penetration.

https://youtu.be/14idIdh1VhE?si=lxzlMGW0zf2n1XHy&t=169

[anachronism]

Of course there's no way of identifying how many times 9mm didn't stop the bear.

Cross out "Bells", and replace with "9mm brass".
grizzlybears and warning sign.jpg

[Ron3]

Just FYI. Underwood 9mm with hardcast bullets penetrated 40+" in this guy's test. And the Buffalo Bore went through all three 16" gel blocks exceeding 48" of penetration.

https://youtu.be/14idIdh1VhE?si=lxzlMGW0zf2n1XHy&t=169

Yea, Clear Gel can really allow a bullet to penetrate alot more than calibrated ballistics ordinance gelatin.

[georgeib]

Yea, Clear Gel can really allow a bullet to penetrate alot more than calibrated ballistics ordinance gelatin.

Oh, I didn't know that. I thought I remembered hearing the opposite is true, but I may be getting it backwards.

ETA: just read that clear gel doesn't expand hollow points as well as 10% calibrated gelatin, and this is the reason it allows, on average, 56% deeper penetration with hollow point bullets. Would be interesting to see a back to back test using FMJ and hard cast bullets in both gels to see what the differences are.

[Ron3]

Oh, I didn't know that. I thought I remembered hearing the opposite is true, but I may be getting it backwards.

ETA: just read that clear gel doesn't expand hollow points as well as 10% calibrated gelatin, and this is the reason it allows, on average, 56% deeper penetration with hollow point bullets. Would be interesting to see a back to back test using FMJ and hard cast bullets in both gels to see what the differences are.

Yea that could be interesting.

I think it doesn't expand JHP's as much because it isn't as dense.

[gaijin]

I’ve experienced nearly 4’ of penetration on a big (430 lb) Boar Hog with a “Cast Performance” 300 gr, WFNGC .45 out of a custom 5” Bisley. It was a “head on” shot at 1200+ FPS.

Good, “heavy for caliber”, Cast bullets at 1100-1200 FPS have always exhibited exceptional penetration in game IME.

[G woody]

I do not have any experience shooting bears, but soon will if they keep coming in my yard, Game Wardens, be dammed !! I do have considerable experience using handguns on deer, 44 Mag & heavy loaded 45 ACP. Handguns do not deliver the shock delivered by a more powerful rifle. Unless you shoot into the brain or spinal cord they just have to bleed out. They may do that standing, or laying down, of if already excited, while running. Bears, I expect may bleed out while charging !!

[Krazykarl]

I’ve experienced nearly 4’ of penetration on a big (430 lb) Boar Hog with a “Cast Performance” 300 gr, WFNGC .45 out of a custom 5” Bisley. It was a “head on” shot at 1200+ FPS.

Good, “heavy for caliber”, Cast bullets at 1100-1200 FPS have always exhibited exceptional penetration in game IME.

Great point!! Linebaugh was a proponent of 1200fps for heavy hard cast bullets. 1200fps was good enough:

1. Recoil management and recovery to get a follow up shot off.
2. Lower pressure and friendly on handgun parts.
3. A heavy enough bullet with large meplat will have tremendous penetration at 1200fps.
4. 1200 fps is a flat enough trajectory for 100 yard shots.

When I started working up loads for my 41magnum, the buffalo bore results were impressive. But! I avoided the trap and followed Linebaugh's advice. I have a revolver that is fun to shoot and practice with rather than dread a range session.