Administrative loading/unloading

[halfmoonclip]

Over the years, I've noticed that the top round in the magazine suffers from repeated loadings. Recently, I've been toting a P365 at camp, and want snakeshot for hiking, but defensive ammo for the wee hours of the night. The top round was soon shorter; I was loading by the time honored method of letting the slide slam.
In some older Smith autos, it was possible to drop a round in the chamber, ease the slide forward, and press on the rear of the extractor to help it over the cartridge rim.
The Sig didn't want to do this, but it was amenable to easing the slide forward, slowly but not too slowly, feeding a round from the magazine. The round chambered, the slide went fully into battery. The round suffers no damage.
Couple caveats:
-I'm not suggesting anything but letting the slide slam for a serious reload; this is simply for administrative handling.
-Some guns (original style 1911s with internal extractors especially) simply have to be vigorously loaded from the magazine.
-The objective is saving damage to expensive defensive ammo, not cheapie range stuff.
So, thoughts?
Moon

[Dennis]

I carry a separate Scandium JFrame with shot in snake country. 5 shots instead of one and really my only useful application for a wayyy too light for +P duty ammo revolver!

I try to minimize admin loading and unloading on my duty and EDC guns and I usually switch a once loaded/extracted round for a round in the mag. I usually shoot my primary mag at least quarterly so that refreshes the ammo but any round that looks even sorta suspicious gets put into my range stash and a fresh round substituted. After everything you have invested why be cheap with the first round in your primary protection weapon?

Dennis.



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[tacticaldesire]

Stop overthinking things and get training.

An HST or GD is .60 cents. If you see the bullet setting back in the case, replace it.

[ggammell]

Stop overthinking things and get training.

An HST or GD is .60 cents. If you see the bullet setting back in the case, replace it.

This^^^^

Ammunition is an expendable item.

[Drifting Fate]

Ammunition is expendable.

Even external extractor designs can get damage to the extractor hook if forced over a chambered cartridge. Much less likely than damage to an internal extractor, but still a consideration.

The biggest negative to me is that the chance for an accident goes up exponentially every time a gun is handled, especially administratively. Yes, we all know better and follow the four safety rules, but that's why they are "accidents". I believe that part of this is due to the numbing effect repeated handling brings to a person, and that administrative reloads are often done on auto-pilot. People just don't treat the situation with the respect and attention it deserves. Ayoob once described the carelessness born of habituation as "Fluffy the pet rattlesnake syndrome". It fits.

On this site, I expect people to be more tuned in and less susceptible to such misfortune. Just realize you are only a few pounds and a lapsed moment of concentration away from an unintentional and unexpected Loud Noise.

I like the idea of a J-frame with snake shot and will incorporate that into my own plans post haste. Thank you!

[ST911]

Don't drop rounds in the chamber. Chamber them from the magazine.
Make a tick mark on the case head with a sharpie each time it's chambered. When you have 2-4 marks, rotate it out.
Rotate when there is any deformation to the rim or case mouth.

Check this out from Claude Werner: https://www.facebook.com/ATLFirearms...7565304317577/

Setback is real but varies wildly, even with a manufacturer and particular sku. Crimp, jacket composition, sealants and adhesives, grooves and cannelures, slide energy, bullet profile, case taper, etc. During deliberate experimentation some major duty/carry rounds were chambered 2-3 dozen times with no effect, and were fired, extracted, and ejected without issue. Some show setback at 2-3x. I worried about a couple of 357SIG rounds when chambering them the first time.

Setback may have serious or negligible effect on pressures, depending.

It's just not worth it. Don't download at all or as often, or buy a few extra boxes of carry ammo.

[MistWolf]

If you have the time and the room to draw on a snake, you've got the time and room to go around it. Birdshot is the worst option I've ever used against a rattlesnake. Their heads are small targets and their movements make the head hard to hit. Birdshot patterns from handguns are inconsistent. Missing the head and hitting the body just pisses off the snake, sending it into high gear, making it more dangerous and harder to hit. The best option I've ever used against a snake is pole, like a hiking staff. Rattlesnakes are quick, but have low endurance. I've never gotten a rattlesnake to make more than three strikes before they just coil up and quit.

When I want to kill a rattlesnake, I'll prod it with a pole and let it strike the pole until it runs out of steam. Keep a good grip on the pole when doing do because the rattlesnake will hit it with power, especially if it's a mature specimen! After the rattler runs out of steam, I pin its head with the pole and crush it. If I don't want to kill it, I will use the pole to carefully move the rattler to a more remote location. (I only kill rattlers when I want its skin and meat.)


I have never seen a rattlesnake with a strike range of more than half its body length. Most had a strike range of about one third it's body length. Leave yourself a margin for error because the force of the strike can pull its body forward across the ground, especially on loose sand or smooth stone.

When unloading the P365 for and loading again after dry fire, I simply push the slide forward firmly while holding it in my hand, then press the back of the slide firmly with my thumb to prevent set back of the cartridge. I have never had a malfunction using this method. I also make it a point to fire off the ammo in the mag whenever I go to the range.

[Firefly]

Aaaah yes, the Barney bullet. I would keep a whole separate box of same ammo just to replace it.

You can have a catastrophic failure. I actually think and practice that unless you are running a duty weapon that you just carry condition 3. It will save in the long run and if you can practice charging the gun upon draw from retention then you should certainly start. I even think this is excellent for CCW as if your weapon gets taken then it gives you a second to try something different.

You really cant and shouldn’t just leave a round chambered forever as it can corrode or build up little dirt bunnies.

Even doing that, dutifully, a 50 round box can last you almost a year. Agree with the marker idea. Then just burn it in practice, qual, hunting, whatever but you cannot safely keep rechambering a round. Especially a .40

[halfmoonclip]

Okay, some good responses, I'll try to respond to a couple...
-Agreed that feeding the round from the magazine is the only right way; most handguns are controlled feed. My only difference was working the slide more gently.
-Agreed that gun handling can result in unwanted kabooms; 'fluffy the rattlesnake' sounds like Ayoob. I am almighty careful; my biggest sin is press checking a gun I expect to be empty, rather than dropping the mag and racking the slide. Of course, ol Mas had a kaboom with a cleared revolver. Chit happens; rule 1, rule 1, rule 1.
-Rattlesnakes have not been an issue near our camp, tho' there are some. Concur that it's possible to simply avoid them, but I'd sooner be rid of them. I have health issues, and likely wouldn't survive a snakebite. Copperheads are the issue; agree that snakeshot is less than perfect, but 8-10' is max distance. (BTW, tried a Governor, and the .410 put out more shot, but a big donut hole in the middle of the pattern, presumably from the rifling spin...so that was no go.)
-A 340SC full of snakeshot, and something else as well, is an idea. But I hate to be Tony TwoGuns on a leisurely walk at camp.
-Yeah, defensive ammo is relatively cheap, but a buck @ round isn't free. Sometimes your favored brand isn't available, and there have been shortages. Yeah, battered rounds end up clearly marked and shot away at the range, and periodically shooting away carry ammo is a great idea.
-Carrying Condition 3, chamber empty, seems the worst of all worlds; all the usual bad stuff that can happen is magnified by doing it under stress.
Thanks,
Moon

[Firefly]

I hate to name check but even Mr. Vickers advocates Condition 3 and unless I am mistaken it is current military doctrine so there’s that.

If you are worried about snakes then maybe you need something like a Judge for a trail gun.

The reason you NEVER want to hand chamber a round is aside from a potential slamfire you are damaging your extractor each and every time you do that.

If you are in such a bad position that you gotta be cleared hot all day and it’s not your paid job then that comes down to self reflection on how you ended up there.

I shot a bear with a single shot .44 as a teen and really....was always told to carry that gun on an empty cylinder so.....