Administrative loading/unloading

[halfmoonclip]

Dear lord, Firefly, carrying a Thompson Center chamber empty? Well, okay.
Condition 3 was military doctrine when I had a baggy green skin, but what happened in the field was likely a different matter. A lot of that was CYA thinking from on high. Don't mean to argue, but not many shooting coaches advocate C-3.
If you reread my initial and above post, I agree with you entirely. You're apt to break something just dropping a round in the chamber.
A .410 revolver only sounds like a good idea, at least for snakes.
Best,
Moon

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I live on 30+ acres and I have a lot of timber rattlers and cotton mouths. I carry my J frame with the first round being snake shot. I have laser grips so I can do a careful head shot as a follow up with a gold dot if needed. I always have my j-frame in my pocket unless I am in a court room, bed or shower. It is one of the many great virtues of the pocket revolver. I usually just aim at the head, and do the follow up coup de grace if needed.

[Firefly]

Dear lord, Firefly, carrying a Thompson Center chamber empty? Well, okay.
Condition 3 was military doctrine when I had a baggy green skin, but what happened in the field was likely a different matter. A lot of that was CYA thinking from on high. Don't mean to argue, but not many shooting coaches advocate C-3.
If you reread my initial and above post, I agree with you entirely. You're apt to break something just dropping a round in the chamber.
A .410 revolver only sounds like a good idea, at least for snakes.
Best,
Moon

I am not trying to be obtuse. You have to cock a Contender, yes? That’s a totally different manual of arms that I don’t own or mess with.

I live in snake country and I carry my guns C3 until I am getting where I want to run into game and then I just charge my AR. Most snakes won’t bother you if you just let them go on their way

More than a few times I have let a copperhead or a milk snake go his merry way.

It’s just what has worked for me. But like if one just needed a constantly topped off and hot gun then any revolver will do as I occasionally take my Model 29 or Anaconda out with me.

It’s just hiking/hunting. It’s not the ‘Nam. If the trees start speaking Vietnamese at me in Georgia then I am repositioning myself 180 and going back to the truck as there is nothing for me thattaway

[tacticaldesire]

I hate to name check but even Mr. Vickers advocates Condition 3 and unless I am mistaken it is current military doctrine so there’s that.

Bee Bopping around a FOB is not the same as concealed carrying.

Any good scenario based force on force class will show you instantly why an empty chamber is a terrible idea.

Inside the home, sure. Outside the home, there are way too many variables. You're planing on everything going your way which is never the case. It's like saying you'll have time to put on a seatbelt before you wreck.

[RHINOWSO]

I hate to name check but even Mr. Vickers advocates Condition 3 and unless I am mistaken it is current military doctrine so there’s that.

[Firefly]

Bee Bopping around a FOB is not the same as concealed carrying.

Any good scenario based force on force class will show you instantly why an empty chamber is a terrible idea.

Inside the home, sure. Outside the home, there are way too many variables. You're planing on everything going your way which is never the case. It's like saying you'll have time to put on a seatbelt before you wreck.

I want to address this. I am no stranger to some really horrid ghettos. Places where you will never see a white (or mauve) face. Places where if you do not fit in with the scenery you will get instant attention.

If you get swarmed up on, chances are they already have their weapons out or will outnumber you regardless. If taken off kilter you will be deprived of your phone, your wallet, your shoes, and your weapon. If the gun they take from you goes click instead of bang then you have bought yourself a little more time. Not a lot but a little to run down your little If/Then Prompt. Most thuggies don’t press check nor rack the slide upon taking a curbside pickup. Now, you shouldn’t put yourself, voluntarily, in such a predicament but hey, what shit happens.

All things are fluid, if I anticipate hostility then I will go ahead and up the ante if egress is no longer an option.

Although I have gotten far, far more careful of where I go on my own time and typically avoid places of an undesirable nature, places with too many people, or places where I just plum don’t wish to be. My trips are preplanned. I get what I need and I go.

I will further add that I have and continue to practice drawing and charging from concealment. It’s just one more step in a rehearsed until versed manual of arms. Because if I have gotten to that point it means that someone is 99% going to be shot. Me or them.

Plus if it gets too bad and I have become overwhelmed (no mean feat I assure you) I may have to drop mag and just remove the gun from the equation. Continue down the If/Then chain. It may require dirty hand to hand, and edged weapon, or other less than desirable solutions but I have denied them the opportunity to use my own weapon against me.

There is always a gun at every scene; YOURS.

A for instance: Your GPS takes you through an area you are wholly ignorant of. You hit a cul de sac. Or a red light. Or just something where your vehicle has to stop or slow down. Then you get bricked and snatched and passed down. You are off balance and disoriented but you have a hot gun. As soon as you start zipping that hand towards SOB or AIWB or whatever you hear with more bass than you would like “YO THIS WHITEBOY GOTS A GAT!!!!” aaaand its gone. And its hot. And now its pointed your way.

You can what if me all day but that happens to people more than you think just getting yanked or stopped. If you weren’t prepared to run them over then you weren’t prepared to draw.

My first attempt in any scenario in which I have no duty to engage is to get away. You try wrestling with someone over a hot gun. Seriously try it. Not a rifle a G19 or comparable. I promise you it never ever ends well or in your favor.

Nobody thinks it can happen to them but I assure you it does. Anything that buys me time or helps me cheat. If cornered then it is just one more step and away we go.

You don’t know how many people are going to show up at your random mugging but if you did you wouldn’t be there, now would you?

Which is why I silently chuckle at the roly polys who open carry and think how easily they are willing to give people an opportunity to get their gun.

Which is why on duty we most def carry a hot gun but also triple retention holsters, radios(which are way faster than a cell phone) body armor back ups, and uniforms that automatically announce our intentions.

I had a oorah switched gung ho instructor tell me the same thing you are telling me. And I says, okay. Lets get a sim gun and make a scenario of it. As soon as he drew he was jumped. Tackled. And his shot either missed, or wasn’t able to complete the draw. And he knew what was coming. He just didn’t know from where. One distracts one starts the others dogpile.

He eventually laid on his gun and problem solved until he admitted that without being able to have it pre drawn that it didn’t do as much good. Especially after I took it from him and shot him in the ass. Trying my little idea, but not telling the other people, I told someone else to get the gun but did not tell them it was C3. It bought him a second after he was picked up off his holster side. Other guy was checking it, charging it and he was able to do something else.

That precious second gave him time to attempt to separate.

We like to think we are the stoic lone wolf but we aren’t.

Seriously get a sim gun or airsoft, get some friends and test it out. One extra second is better than no extra second.

Caveat if you get swarmed and they want to kill you then you are probably going to die. Look at BHD. Two men, peak ability, badassery not at all in question and there were just too many.

Just a dirty trick from the hood, not a new book in the Gospel. But let me simply say.....I’m still here and will likely not change how I do things as a result of still being here.

YMMV

[Firefly]

There was a video where he was demonstrating shooting with former Team Glock member Randi Rogers where he explicitly stated as such.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

It is interesting that I BELIEVE that one of the reason Gaston was comfortable with the safteyless relatively light triggered gun was that it was supposed to be carried chamber empty (per Austrian Military doctrine). He, it appears, decided that the admin safety on guns like the P38 was of minimal usefulness. I don't think the idea of carrying it hot was anticipated until Karl Walter started peddling these X-ray proof guns to police departments out of his RV of doom in the mid 80s.


History aside, I am definitely a chamber loaded guy. I am slow enough! But I can see why if you carried a striker gun you MIGHT leave it beside the bed at night chamber empty so you didn't tap a round off into your foot or dog while sleepy. My beside the bed guns are chamber loaded but it is almost always a DA/SA like my USP .45 or Beretta 92

[Firefly]

It is interesting that I BELIEVE that one of the reason Gaston was comfortable with the safteyless relatively light triggered gun was that it was supposed to be carried chamber empty (per Austrian Military doctrine). He, it appears, decided that the admin safety on guns like the P38 was of minimal usefulness. I don't think the idea of carrying it hot was anticipated until Karl Walter started peddling these X-ray proof guns to police departments out of his RV of doom in the mid 80s.


History aside, I am definitely a chamber loaded guy. I am slow enough! But I can see why if you carried a striker gun you MIGHT leave it beside the bed at night chamber empty so you didn't tap a round off into your foot or dog while sleepy. My beside the bed guns are chamber loaded but it is almost always a DA/SA like my USP .45 or Beretta 92

You are correct it was most certainly designed around military C3 carry and why the original P80s also had magazines that did not drop free.

Unless you get The Big Show or Shaq O Neill then I won’t be physically intimidated but at the same time the Liliputians managed to put Gulliver on his ass just by outnumbering him and AT-AT stringing him

[Firefly]

@RHINOWSO

I don’t have the exact time stamp but this is what I am referring to plus a livestream he did

ETA it’s around the 4:00 mark



I can also only speak for myself. If you seek further clarification please as Mr. Vickers.