Administrative loading/unloading

[26 Inf]

Make a tick mark on the case head with a sharpie each time it's chambered. When you have 2-4 marks, rotate it out.

Great idea, so simple I'm surprised I hadn't heard it before. I had a five mag system, used #1 in the gun for a week, then rotated in #2 and dumped the round that had been chambered into the coffee cup in the safe, gave mag #1 a rest for a week, and so on and so forth...

I want to address this.

Just a dirty trick from the hood, not a new book in the Gospel. But let me simply say.....I’m still here and will likely not change how I do things as a result of still being here.

YMMV

Wings - great post should give folks some food for thought and discussion.

One of maxims that force-on-force quickly proves is 'you'll never beat a draw or drawn gun.' Which is one of the reasons that I tried to instill what I called 'The Gift of Movement' into our training whenever possible. (a blatant rip off of 'The Gift of Fear') Movement off threat axis serves at least two purposes: 1) should make you harder to hit; 2) causes a burp in the bad guy's OODA loop, buying you some time.

Your description of the swarm and your reasoned solution should inspire some rational discussion. Folks should consider the world they live in and the likely threats they will face. From your description of the common tactics used by felons in your AO, condition three carry seems reasonable, as would carrying a pistol with a functional magazine disconnect.

The important thing is to think through likely situations and have a plan then practice your plan. One thing I always asked of folks I taught is to question anything they didn't understand the why of. If you can't explain the why of something you are teaching, you have no business teaching it. As an example, I prefer to move into a close to moderate range threat on a diagonal. Although I practice lateral, diagonal back, straight in and out, if you are working with me you are going to spend a lot of time moving diagonally in. I can explain why and prove the tactic on drills with 'virgins.'

Whether you choose to put the tactic in your tool box is your choice because ultimately when I teach you a tactic, I'm betting your life. In this case, I understand that you tactic is valid for you AO, but I don't feel the pros out weigh the cons in situations that I anticipate in my AO, so I'm stilling rolling loaded chamber, keeping my mouth shut (hard for me to do) and avoiding what I feel are sketchy situations if possible.

I also like the emphasis you place on thinking about where you go. I've long ago forgotten who to attribute this quote to, but it absolute truth: If you need a gun to go to the grocery store, you don't need a gun, you need a new grocery store.' Too many people think that having an EDC gives them license to do things they wouldn't normally do, in essence force things they wouldn't normally force.

Great posts guys.

[tacticaldesire]

I want to address this. I am no stranger to some really horrid ghettos. Places where you will never see a white (or mauve) face. Places where if you do not fit in with the scenery you will get instant attention.

I am quite familiar with the hood. I have lived in places where gunfire, muggings and liquor store stickups were a nightly occurrence. The same areas in which you describe.

My background includes local law enforcement, dignitary protection and contracting in some major shit holes. I am well versed in the tactics of street thugs. Not to make this an e-peen competition but I believe we are coming from similar places here.

If you get swarmed up on, chances are they already have their weapons out or will outnumber you regardless. If taken off kilter you will be deprived of your phone, your wallet, your shoes, and your weapon. If the gun they take from you goes click instead of bang then you have bought yourself a little more time. Not a lot but a little to run down your little If/Then Prompt.

In your own scenario they already have their own guns pointed at me so whether or not the gun they pull off me is loaded or not is immaterial. An empty chamber only serves to hinder me at that point. So what if the gun the take off me goes click? There's supposedly a few more facing my direction anyway leaving me with the same options as before.

Anything that buys me time or helps me cheat

Carrying with a loaded chamber does both of those things

I can also set up scenarios with sim guns that guarantee that I win. That is where critical thinking comes in. If you're surrounded at gun point, obviously that is not the best time to draw.

I will further add that I have and continue to practice drawing and charging from concealment. It’s just one more step in a rehearsed until versed manual of arms. Because if I have gotten to that point it means that someone is 99% going to be shot. Me or them.

You're assuming you'll have two hands available to draw or time to rack it off your belt/holster.

I'm not trying to change your opinion but you're making a lot of assumptions. Such as:

Your GPS takes you through an area you are wholly ignorant of. You hit a cul de sac. Or a red light. Or just something where your vehicle has to stop or slow down. Then you get bricked and snatched and passed down. You are off balance and disoriented but you have a hot gun. As soon as you start zipping that hand towards SOB or AIWB or whatever you hear with more bass than you would like “YO THIS WHITEBOY GOTS A GAT!!!!” aaaand its gone. And its hot. And now its pointed your way.

This might be a likely scenario for some people. But if I get bricked and pulled out of my car and subsequently disarmed at a stoplight I would have failed at so many other things that I deserve whatever consequences come my way.

I'm not Jason Bourne but come on....

I attend a lot of training in multiple different disciplines (and am an instructor in a few myself). That, coupled with my experience and what I have seen, I am much more comfortable "cleared hot". I know when it is and isn't advisable to draw, I know what situations/places to avoid, I know how to use my vehicle as a weapon, and I much like you, would rather egress whenever possible. Take a look at M.U.C (Managaing unknown contacts) and the ECQC curriculum. You might be surprised.

[tacticaldesire]

I also like the emphasis you place on thinking about where you go. I've long ago forgotten who to attribute this quote to, but it absolute truth: If you need a gun to go to the grocery store, you don't need a gun, you need a new grocery store.' Too many people think that having an EDC gives them license to do things they wouldn't normally do, in essence force things they wouldn't normally force.

Great posts guys.

While I agree entirely with not going to stupid places just because you have gun, that quote is putting things in way too simplistic of terms.

What about the people shopping at Walmart in El Paso? They certainly could have used a gun. Are they morons for being there or perhaps something may have happened that was beyond their control?

[ST911]

I find that when many people talk about carrying guns for snakes it's often to rationalize carrying the gun to other people, to carry something they're attached to they wouldn't otherwise (like a Judge), or to give them an excuse to shoot the gun or kill something. Shooting snakes simply isn't necessary for most. Keep hiking. If you want to kill them, pin the head and cut it off.

There is no universal "military" pistol carry doctrine and practices vary widely between and within branches. Speaking to that is TC 3-23.35, 5/2017.

WEAPON SAFETY STATUS
The readiness of a Soldier’s weapon is termed its weapon safety status (WSS). It is standard code that uses common colors (green, amber, red, and black) to represent the level of readiness for a given weapon. Each color represents a specific series of actions applied to a weapon. They are used in training and combat to place or maintain a level of safety relevant to the current task or action of a Soldier, small unit, or group. Table 1-1 shows the weapon safety status for the Army service pistol.

5-21. An important feature of the M9 service pistol is that it is safe to carry the pistol with the safety/decocking lever in the up (off) position. The M9 service pistol is designed so it will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. Local leadership will make the decision for their Soldiers about the position of the safety/decocking lever while the pistol is in the holster.

[Firefly]

Tacticaldesire,

No epeen competition implied nor inferred, just something to think about. Again, if I feel the need to up the ante then I allow myself discretion to do so prior.

But as we all know, if you are that switched on....it would take just about Divine Intervention to put you in that scenario to begin with.

As 26 touched on.

I mean, like the kids say “You do you”. I mainly brought up C3 for general CCW as a way not to be running through defense ammo without actually shooting it.

The sharpie is an old trick anyway and works

[jsbhike]

What kind of snakes are necessitating the shot load being the primary one? The only ones coming to mind aren't domestic US at least.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I live on a large tract with a creek cutting through it. I get water moccasins and rattle snakes. Occasionally a coral snake. I have a very brave and dumb basset, chickens etc. I prefer to dispatch the quickly with shot rather than running to find a garden hoe and hoping it doesn’t slink off to bite my animals or my little girl later.

[jsbhike]

I live on a large tract with a creek cutting through it. I get water moccasins and rattle snakes. Occasionally a coral snake. I have a very brave and dumb basset, chickens etc. I prefer to dispatch the quickly with shot rather than running to find a guarden hoe and hoping it doesn’t slink off to bite my animals or my little girl later.

Ahhhhh that makes sense with kids and pets. I was not thinking of that angle at all.

[Straight Shooter]

WHY did Vickers tape the muzzle of the Glock in the video? Watched it 3 times...still dont understand. Was it just to keep dirt out of the muzzle or something else?
Said he did it in military..I never heard such a thing.

[RHINOWSO]

@RHINOWSO

I don’t have the exact time stamp but this is what I am referring to plus a livestream he did

ETA it’s around the 4:00 mark

I can also only speak for myself. If you seek further clarification please as Mr. Vickers.

And if you enjoy carrying on an empty chamber because Mr Vickers said it's cool in a single video you found, have fun.

Aside from that video, I doubt there are many instructors who advocate it as a matter of course. And yes, I give zero fuk$ what people here do.

I live on a large tract with a creek cutting through it. I get water moccasins and rattle snakes. Occasionally a coral snake. I have a very brave and dumb basset, chickens etc. I prefer to dispatch the quickly with shot rather than running to find a garden hoe and hoping it doesn’t slink off to bite my animals or my little girl later.

Agreed - city folks often don't understand.