Administrative loading/unloading

[maximus83]

Aside from that video, I doubt there are many instructors who advocate it as a matter of course.

Not any kind of SME, just have my own years of shooting experience and training (which has never involved a real defensive shooting, admittedly). I don't know the context of the LAV comment or what he'd say if we could talk to him more extensively about that. But that aside, any respected instructor I've ever talked to or heard of has recommended carrying with one in the chamber.

I respect the comments of those who have been directly involved in situations of a weapon take-away. That's a bad situation, and I believe it can happen. However....I still follow the principle--which I think somebody above alluded to--prepare for the most common scenario. In my understanding, the most common scenario of me having to use my concealed carry weapon is *not* that I'll be wrestling for it, but rather that I would need to draw, get on target quickly, and fire. I want to prepare for *that* scenario.

[AKDoug]

WHY did Vickers tape the muzzle of the Glock in the video? Watched it 3 times...still dont understand. Was it just to keep dirt out of the muzzle or something else?
Said he did it in military..I never heard such a thing.

All my hunting rifles are taped. I, and many others, have extensively tested it to prove that it doesn't cause accuracy issues. I honestly have never taped a handgun barrel, but I also have not headed out into the night fully expecting to crawl through the mud. I suppose if I were in a position to crawl through the mud, handgun in hand, taping the barrel might not be a bad idea.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I can tell you, I have taken A LOT of LAV classes and he has never recommended chamber empty. Clearly it was military doctrine to carry empty, I suspect for the same reason I saw guards outside Downing Street with empty translucent G36 mags...the admin types don't trust people with guns until there is no other option.

[maximus83]

I can tell you, I have taken A LOT of LAV classes and he has never recommended chamber empty. Clearly it was military doctrine to carry empty, I suspect for the same reason I saw guards outside Downing Street with empty translucent G36 mags...the admin types don't trust people with guns until there is no other option.

Interesting. Was trying to think if I'd read or heard about any well known trainer within the last decade or so who recommends C3. No doubt there are some, but without searching, can't recall any.


Does anybody know which well known instructors or other shooting community SME's recommend C3 for LE and/or civilian carry? Not really considering C3 for myself, but interested to read if somebody makes a strong case for it.

[Firefly]

For a board that claims to stick with Israel through thick and thin; I am baffled none of you have ever heard of Israeli Carry. I didnt come up with it, it's not new, and its not a bad idea if you do train to it.

I just found that it suits me. Now people want to make a federal case because I do what works for me.

Awesome.

[maximus83]

For a board that claims to stick with Israel through thick and thin; I am baffled none of you have ever heard of Israeli Carry. I didnt come up with it, it's not new, and its not a bad idea if you do train to it.

I just found that it suits me. Now people want to make a federal case because I do what works for me.

Awesome.

Nah I'm not throwing rocks at ya', bro. That's why I said above that "I respect the comments of..." etc. And of course I've heard of Israeli carry. Just not that familiar with folks in the current climate, in our context, who advocate for it.

Do what works for you.

[RHINOWSO]

For a board that claims to stick with Israel through thick and thin; I am baffled none of you have ever heard of Israeli Carry. I didnt come up with it, it's not new, and its not a bad idea if you do train to it.

I just found that it suits me. Now people want to make a federal case because I do what works for me.

Awesome.

Easy Nelly, don't let your panties get all bunched up. Do you man, do you.

Yeah, we've heard of that but I'd guess 99% of serious shooters in the USA don't accept it as a best practice.

And in the interest of data collection - if you ever take any serious CCW training, let us know how you do in the class.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Everyone is heard of Israeli carry. It’s also common for a lot of different military outfits. Because, I suspect, conscripts and teenagers generally suck at gun safety.

***note! I ain’t saying you shouldn’t. I am a man who generally carries a pocket .38 so I am totally familiar with the wrath of the tactical or death crowd. It’s pretty old school, but definitely a safe way to carry a Glock.

[26 Inf]

While I agree entirely with not going to stupid places just because you have gun, that quote is putting things in way too simplistic of terms.

What about the people shopping at Walmart in El Paso? They certainly could have used a gun. Are they morons for being there or perhaps something may have happened that was beyond their control?

I guess your not taking it in the proper context, which I find hard to understand when I end the statement with 'in essence force things they wouldn't normally force.' That doesn't even remotely apply to the folks at the El Paso Walmart, unless they arrived in the middle of the shooting and decided to shop because 'eff it, I've got a gun.'

I go to a convenience store that regularly has groups of 17-25 year-old hispanic, black, and white males, hanging around the front door and parking lot. Since it my AO I know they are, almost absolutely, athletes from the local JUCO, their dorm is a block from the store. I have no hesitation to pull into that location, any time, the fact that I'm carrying doesn't impact that decision at all. On the other hand, late at night in another location I'm not as familiar with, the same circumstance, group of '17-25 year old males milling around, I'd probably feel uncomfortable if I didn't have a gun. As a result I'm probably driving past that store - in other words, I need a new convenience store.

Not to get into the weeds, but it's kind of like I once asked another officer when I was a rookie and he was showing me how to hold my gun along my leg so it wouldn't be seen on a t-stop: 'if I need a gun drawn to walk up to a car, why am I walking up to the car?'

ETA: I just looked at the title of the thread: Administrative loading/unloading belay the 'not to get into the weeds' comment, we be there.

[MountainRaven]

I just want to point out that:

A- This isn't Israel.
B- The Israelis don't do it, either.

Israeli carry was invented when the Israelis were literally carrying whatever guns they could find and that included guns which, due to age and neglect, were functional but not mechanically safe. While training a bunch of people with literally no previous firearms experience and needing to get them out of training and into the field right now, so even when the guns were mechanically safe, the people carrying them often weren't.