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Senior Member
I spent a lot of time looking at hescos threat matrix and it helped me understand trade-offs.
I ended upbwith l210s based on realistic threats where Im at. They stop most intermediate rounds, are light and concealable. Th u210s would be preferred (bi4800lv being ideal), but i cant justify the price right now. Ymmv.
Senior Member
You said before you didn't want plates, but you also said you didn't really care about it being concealed. These are kind of mutually exclusive statements usually. That is, if you're in a scenario where it's not a liability to go around in visible armor, then you're by default in a scenario where long guns are fully in play. Ergo, you'll want plates.Originally Posted by Bimmer
What I would recommend at this point is a JPC with SAPI plates and soft backers. That way you have your semi concealable IIIA armor, plus you can add plates if you want to. The JPCs are kind of unique because they have elastic instead of pre determined plate pocket sizes. So they're flat when empty, making them pretty lo vis. So with IIIA backers only, they would be about as concealable as anything else you've been looking at in the BALCS category. Maybe even more so, especially with the single straps.
Senior Member
I still have mine lol. But mine are standalone...thought they all were?
And yes, one TAP Gamma is worth all the AR500s in the world. Not even debatable. Steel plates are simply too heavy, and there's always that small chance someone might be running around with grampa's old national match loaded with M193.
Member
I have soft armor backers behind my TAP Gamma + plates. They're stand alone, but in testing, there was some significant deformation with some ammunition. Tests were a while ago. I can't find the link, but I know the results are here and on lightfighter.
Last edited by mrbieler; 09-20-20 at 10:04.
- Jeff
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” ― George Orwell, 1984
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Mine are actually TAP Gamma M plates. These were available at the same time, have an NSN as a viable replacement to the issued SAPIs from the same time frame. Triad Tactical was selling them a decade or so ago, can’t totally recall when. I have Velocity Systems backers behind mine. I’ve used this setup for a good long while as I didn’t feel the need to upgrade to the latest and greatest. Should be gtg.
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Only word of caution is that there's some question whether this stretchy material will hold up over time as well as standard cordura nylon. Crye tech support even states that it may eventually rip if you put an oversized plate in (it will insert but may immediately or later rip). Would never happen with nylon - if you can get the plate in without breaking the seams, it won't just fall apart later. Same with their laminate material on the Airlite line - no one (including Crye's tech support) knows its lifespan with UV / heat / physical trauma etc. No mil-spec testing that I can find (doubt it exists) for either the stretch fabric or the laminate (I would bet a whole lot that both would dramatically fail mil testing). I'd go with a low-vis carrier that is all nylon - that's the lowest chance of failure - there are more than a few options.
Hesco's U210s (better) or L210s (quite a but heavier / slightly thicker / less protection without M855 A1, but do stop regular M855) are standalone plates that are easily concealable under a light jacket (the U210 was designed with concealability as its primary objective). The previously mentioned AT Armor STOP-BZ may be even better than the U210 (if you can find it and are ok paying ~$1K per plate). A IIIa panel under the plate is going to greatly reduce concealability, hence your best option for concealable plates is a thin standalone plate that stops the threats you deem necessary.
Last edited by Naphtali; 09-20-20 at 14:26.
Senior Member
Yea I'm sure it's not quite as durable, but those carriers are pretty common in SOCOM, and truth be told if they can survive a single mission with those guys then they'll probably last me a lifetime.
SAPI plates are also pretty thin. Even with backers, they're about an inch, which is fine for the JPC.
As far as concealability, I was saying you can use the JPC with just the IIIA backers. Concealing plates isn't really that easy unless they're steel. Even the thin ones make you look like a hunchback. Definitely possible under a coat, but ceramic plates thin enough for that are super super expensive.
Last edited by okie; 09-20-20 at 20:05.
Member
A shirt alone can't conceal well. But my U210s in an otherwise empty carrier are undetectable at night under my jacket walking the dog 4 miles (I mainly wear them for weight-bearing exercise, though appreciate the fringe benefit of protection). You can't see them at all with a winter coat on even in the day.
Just go up 1 size, which also helps with concealed carry anyway. With a jacket in the day it wouldn't be obvious, though you can see the plates' outline if you are looking for it. My old 1.1" plates made me look hunchback, even in a coat, so I wore them concealed as weights only on dark nights in Winter. U210s are vastly better - they'd never be noticed under a jacket if there were close-proximity civil unrest catching people's attention, day or night.
Steel is the most ideal concealable plate for weight bearing, as it's super thin and heavy as hell... but spalling is terrible if it's shot.
As noted before, if you want concealable armor in low-risk situations, I'd get a vest from Point Blank / Propper / etc. with IIIa panels plus Hesco or Point Blank 11x14" pistol plates. They're 0.3" thick. That conceals well on a Summer day under a shirt. It will stop virtually any firearm that's not a rifle (knives too), and, unlike IIIa panels alone, you won't have broken ribs +/- blunt heart or lung trauma if you're hit in your plate.
Last edited by Naphtali; 09-20-20 at 22:28.
Senior Member
L210 in slickster hides decently under a hoodie or button up. I might be able to get it a bit better with some playing around with it.
Last edited by MegademiC; 09-21-20 at 08:22.
Member
Lighter colored shirts tend to print more than black, and bright / commercial overhead lighting is the worst for highlighting the plate outline. I'm surprised your shirt does that well in the photo, but neither disadvantage appears to apply. If you're a size or 2 larger to allow more room, that helps a lot.
The biggest advantage is that most people don't see what they don't expect to see, even when it is relatively obvious. So my wife can complain sometimes that I'm printing more than she likes, but we go somewhere and no one ever looks at us. And then a couple years ago, when she was invited backstage after a David Copperfield show, she asked him about the ballistic vest he was wearing under his shirt. He was surprised and told her that no audience member had ever asked about it in the years he'd worn it since getting mugged after a show. She was just really good at autopilot looking for vest printing because of living with me, and 99.9% of the population doesn't do that.
Last edited by Naphtali; 09-21-20 at 09:16.
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