Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7151617
Results 161 to 163 of 163

Thread: Should I have body armor?

  1. #161
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    6
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    I am extremely satisfied with these, and as noted above, shot the crap out of one and was really impressed at how even 3 x 124gr ball rounds through the same hole resulted in only partial penetration of the 3rd round, and BFD was not bad and broad for single strikes (= more surface area over which the force was distributed = less trauma to the wearer). Only tested 9mm, and then for fun verified that m193 went right through (it's not a rifle plate).

    https://www.pointblankenterprises.co...ates-pbba.html

    You can find YouTube videos of 30rd mp5 mag dumps into these with good BFD and no penetration.
    Naphtali, very much enjoyed your analysis on IIIA armor throughout the thread.

    I've recently ordered a pair of rifle plates for myself (Hesco L210 -- can't afford the U210). I'm interested in picking up a pair of pistol plates for my wife, as she can't see herself hauling around rifle plates -- and your analysis of soft armor penetration into the thoracic cavity doesn't sound like something I want her to deal with. I reached out to Point Blank this morning, but their New Mexico sales rep ghosted me as soon as I told him I wasn't current/former LE/MIL.

    Where did you pick up their speed plates? Or do you have another distributor that is okay with civilian sales?

    Thanks.

    ETA: Should have done some Google-fu before posting a question. So long as LA Police Gear doesn't mind arming citizens I should be good to go.
    https://lapolicegear.com/point-speed...BoC8loQAvD_BwE
    Last edited by Karralys; 10-09-20 at 12:21.

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    150
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Karralys View Post
    Naphtali, very much enjoyed your analysis on IIIA armor throughout the thread.

    I've recently ordered a pair of rifle plates for myself (Hesco L210 -- can't afford the U210). I'm interested in picking up a pair of pistol plates for my wife, as she can't see herself hauling around rifle plates -- and your analysis of soft armor penetration into the thoracic cavity doesn't sound like something I want her to deal with. I reached out to Point Blank this morning, but their New Mexico sales rep ghosted me as soon as I told him I wasn't current/former LE/MIL.
    Having played around with my U210s, which are a little thinner than the L210, I'd recommend you use your L210 in 1 of 3 ways:

    1) Standalone in a concealed carrier. No IIIa panel behind it, as the panel's extra ~ 0.275" thickness makes the whole package horrible at concealment, if you're just wearing a large shirt. Plate alone is pretty easy to conceal under any large clothing. Should save your life up to 7.62 x 39. I don't have .308 info for L210, but the U210 does a so-so job vs .308 as noted in my previous post. L210 will definitely perform worse, but to an extent that I don't know.

    2) In a concealed carrier with a IIIa panel behind it, if you have a larger jacket / coat etc. that conceals thicker armor better. But carrying a long gun might change your thinking - see below.

    3) In any carrier worn externally (a concealed carrier obviously can also be worn externally), PROBABLY with a IIIa panel behind it. The L210s BFD is worse than the U210 across the board. E.g. L210 will not stop M855A1 and U210 will. And at 7.62 / .308 it will matter even more. Hesco was very clear that rib fracture is likely after getting hit by .308 in a U210 standalone, and I would guess you might even get first round full or partial penetration in an L210. So if you're seriously worried enough to wear a rifle plate in the first place, and S has HTF enough that you're openly wearing armor, then a IIIa panel behind an L210 is a really good idea from a protection standpoint. The only extra concern would be what weapon you're carrying. If you only have your pistol, then the extra thickness shouldn't mess up your shooting ability. If you're taking a long gun, then I'd do different drills to see how much the extra thickness gets in the way / snags on your stock. The problem is getting the stock on your shoulder - both moving to and from that position, as well as how well it will fit on your shoulder. I've done a lot of carbine shooting with armor on, and I can never shoulder it as well as wearing no armor. It winds up on my deltoid and not in my axillary crease, because the plate blocks my crease. Or you can put the stock more medial than your crease on the plate itself, which is also somewhat awkward - this would be more likely in a larger plate like 11x14". Or you can shoulder it higher with a shooter's cut / SAPI plate, with the bottom half of the stock shouldered in the top half of your axillary crease (to me, this is the worst of the 3 options - the deltoid is the least bad). Discussing this with a Delta, that's an inherent problem they face with their plates. The question is does it fit well enough, and then training to shoot well with the stock in a non-ideal location that is less stable and also more awkward to acquire cheek weld vs. in the axillary crease. This issue is where you may see 1" plates being unacceptably dysfunctional.

    You can buy IIIa panels that just fit behind a plate of whatever size:
    https://www.skdtac.com/SKD-ARMOR-Sof...-p/amr.356.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by Karralys View Post
    Where did you pick up their speed plates? Or do you have another distributor that is okay with civilian sales?

    Thanks.
    I ordered all my pistol plates over several years through Read's Uniforms in NC, though they'll sell to anyone from a state that can legally buy armor - email is: orders@readsuniforms.net
    They never gave me a hard time or required any "proof" that I wasn't going to rob a bank or something... like the stupid concealed carry permit + drivers' license + background check + notarized document promising that I'm not a terrorist, that the morons at SKD (love the company otherwise) and other companies can require.
    Make sure you get the FEMALE version of the plates if you're buying for your wife. Male plates have no room for breasts and are too painful for my wife.
    Last edited by Naphtali; 10-09-20 at 13:05.

  3. #163
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    6
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    Having played around with my U210s, which are a little thinner than the L210, I'd recommend you use your L210 in 1 of 3 ways:

    1) Standalone in a concealed carrier. No IIIa panel behind it, as the panel's extra ~ 0.275" thickness makes the whole package horrible at concealment, if you're just wearing a large shirt. Plate alone is pretty easy to conceal under any large clothing. Should save your life up to 7.62 x 39. I don't have .308 info for L210, but the U210 does a so-so job vs .308 as noted in my previous post. L210 will definitely perform worse, but to an extent that I don't know.

    2) In a concealed carrier with a IIIa panel behind it, if you have a larger jacket / coat etc. that conceals thicker armor better. But carrying a long gun might change your thinking - see below.

    3) In any carrier worn externally (a concealed carrier obviously can also be worn externally), PROBABLY with a IIIa panel behind it. The L210s BFD is worse than the U210 across the board. E.g. L210 will not stop M855A1 and U210 will. And at 7.62 / .308 it will matter even more. Hesco was very clear that rib fracture is likely after getting hit by .308 in a U210 standalone, and I would guess you might even get first round full or partial penetration in an L210. So if you're seriously worried enough to wear a rifle plate in the first place, and S has HTF enough that you're openly wearing armor, then a IIIa panel behind an L210 is a really good idea from a protection standpoint. The only extra concern would be what weapon you're carrying. If you only have your pistol, then the extra thickness shouldn't mess up your shooting ability. If you're taking a long gun, then I'd do different drills to see how much the extra thickness gets in the way / snags on your stock. The problem is getting the stock on your shoulder - both moving to and from that position, as well as how well it will fit on your shoulder. I've done a lot of carbine shooting with armor on, and I can never shoulder it as well as wearing no armor. It winds up on my deltoid and not in my axillary crease. Or you can put the stock more medial than your crease on the plate itself, which is also somewhat awkward. Discussing this with a Delta, that's an inherent problem they face with their plates. The question is does it fit well enough, and then training to shoot well with the stock on your deltoid or on your plate, which are both less stable and also more awkward to acquire cheek weld vs. stock positioning in the axillary crease. You can try to shoulder a rifle on a 1" plate, but I think you'd find it unacceptably awkward.

    You can buy IIIa panels that just fit behind a plate of whatever size:
    https://www.skdtac.com/SKD-ARMOR-Sof...-p/amr.356.htm



    I ordered all my pistol plates over several years through Read's Uniforms in NC, though they'll sell to anyone from a state that can legally buy armor - email is: orders@readsuniforms.net
    They never gave me a hard time or required any "proof" that I wasn't going to rob a bank or something... like the stupid concealed carry permit + drivers' license + background check + notarized document promising that I'm not a terrorist, that the morons at SKD (love the company otherwise) and other companies can require.
    Make sure you get the FEMALE version of the plates if you're buying for your wife. Male plates have no room for breasts and are too painful for my wife.
    Awesome. Thank you for the info. I think I'll be angling toward option #3 (unless I find myself so enamored with these pistol plates for my wife that I need to EDC a pair for myself.) Noted on the female plates -- with that in mind, do you know off the top of your head if there is a carrier that will work well with female specific plates? Or is the plate more important than the carrier in that respect?

    ETA:
    Reading on your experiences with thick plates has me considering cancelling the order on the rifle plates and just gearing up for pistol threats. While I think the threat of any sort of engagement is small, I think I would be far more likely to come across pistol calibers than rifle. And weight savings on a lower threat level armor would be a boon alongside the easier mobility.... plus the ability for concealability.

    You've given me a lot to think about. Thank you.
    Last edited by Karralys; 10-09-20 at 13:06.

Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7151617

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •