Should I have body armor?

[drhoades83]

AR500 has good loadouts with lvl 3 armor for under $500. Quality stuff, from experience.

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[Pappabear]

I one hundred percent doubt I will EVER need body armor. I own AR15 body armor.

PB

[MegademiC]

Trex arms has hesco l210 w/covert carrier for $500.
Defeats all common intermediate threats.

I plan on getting the 3810 set within the next year- added thickness and cost for added full rifle protection (308, etc- still handles 193 and green tip).

I dont “need it”, but its good to have. Its part of a standard loadout that every American should have IMO. At least thats my rational.

A rifle or 2, armor, camo for where you are, and nv device - thats my goal.

[rangerdave]

Crye JPC- $200
Battle Steel level IV ceramic plate, 5.5 lbs- $90 each
Peace of mind- priceless

[czgunner]

I looked into this last year. I found Gray Ghost had a minimalist carrier on sale and went with the cheap Chinese lvl4 plates from that unmentionable place. They tested well, and since I’ll never need them.....
All in, it was under $250. It’s also a very light rig.

ETA: Rangerdave beat me to the punch on the plate reco.

[Wake27]

Sounds like you're pretty well set on things that are likely to be needed, so if you have the money, it won't hurt. I hope we never get to the point that its needed CONUS, but I wouldn't be that surprised nowadays. As far as brands and quality - Primary and Secondary has had at least one or two podcasts on it I think, I'd check those out. If it were me and all I could afford was steel like AR500, I'd either keep saving or not even bother.

[Boy Scout]

As a cop for the last 20 years, I can say without a doubt that body armor is a blessing in disguise and a necessary evil. It’s hot, it’s heavy, mostly ungainly (serous advances have been made, however) and takes some acclimation.

If you want to invest in some, consider some of the differences:

NIJ concealment cut armor is cut to be worn under your clothing, covers more of your vital areas, and stops pistol rounds. This type of armor has grown to outer carriers, some that are “tactical” and some that are meant to emulate uniform shirts. Of this type, I vastly prefer a tactical carrier with a radio pouch, pistol mag pouches, a TQ and med kit (separate) and my TASER. Much more comfortable and cooler. Minus the goodies, this setup will run $500+.

Next on my list is a covert-ish plate carrier with IIIA plate backers. Same ballistic protection and load carriage with a decrease in coverage. Given the option, I’d probably wear this at work every day. This setup would run $300+. (As a side note for non-cops/new class takers, this is a good investment as it allows low entry level cost with ability to upgrade as time and money permit.

Third, is a plate carrier with rifle plates. Much heavier and less flexible (which means much more acclimation), but ballistically the most protection, as it provides protection against rifle threats. This is also the most expensive option and will run $800+ for ceramic/composite plates. I’m personally not a fan of AR500 due to spalling and weight. If it’s something I’m putting my life on the line with, that last thing I want to do is be worn out during the fight and taking a ricochet round to the neck/face/humeral/femoral arteries.


If I were in your shoes, I’d go for option #2 - a lightweight plate carrier with plate backer panels. It would allow you the most cost effective, comfortable, upgradable system that would be easily sold in the EE should you decide it’s not for you. Plus, plate carriers work on a larger range of people (versus NIJ concealable armor) so you may be able to strap it on a loved one should the need arise.

I love my Rogue Gunfighter MOAB, but something like a Ferro Slickster with a MOLLE flap is a good starter. Throw on a couple mag pouches, a med kit and and good flashlight and you have a bump-in-the-night/training rig. Heck, you could put a Safariland ALS holster on it and hang it by your bed and have everything you need. (Training needed for a chest mounted holster - not ideal, but good for grab-and-go.)


Prices are minimums of course, you get what you pay for. I have over $2000 in all three of my setups, all for different roles.

[Jellybean]

To take a stab at #2:

This carrier:

https://www.entrygear.com/product.asp?id=EI-LAND-CIRAS

With this IIIA armor:

https://www.entrygear.com/product.asp?id=VTG-BA-54X


I don't need concealability, and it would be handy to have stuff stuck on the front of the vest (spare mags, flashlight, etc.).

Eh, I'd pass- that's a LOT of extra vest to be carrying around for just soft 3A. For your price of under $750, you could have decent rifle-rated ceramic or poly plates and a FAR better PC...

If money is no object, and you just want 3A, this is probably the best option I've seen;
http://www.cryeprecision.com/armor-equipment/lvs

Heck, even if all you want is 3A, you can get 3A in plate form from DFNDR and then stick them in a decent PC, of which you can find many on SKD or OP-tac to name two places, and voila! Still better than that CIRAS beast...
https://www.dfndrarmor.com/product/h...te-body-armor/

I've gotten to take a lot of 3 day classes. At one of them a local LEO let me try on his vest. He bought panels for the front and back and took the issued soft material and put it on the sides. I would guess it weighed about 30 lbs.
It would take a lot of time to learn to fight with that on. It's not something I would dedicate myself to mastering.
But, if you feel it is insurance you want then get it before it becomes a banned or NFA item.

As the other side to this, I would say buy decent plates that don't weigh 8 pounds each, and get brutal with paring down your load. As a civilian...you can do better than 30 lb load if you throw enough money and thought at it.
Yes, fighting with the extra weight is a whole different game, but it's not *that* far-fetched for someone in even average shape, if they watch what they add to the weight.
Good plates in the 4-5lb range, a modern carrier in the 1.5-2lb range, and then 4 rifle/2 pistol mags, light, multitool and IFAK is only 17-19 lb. Even plussed up with more ammo, a radio and some other accessories, you're looking at about 25 lbs. And that still leaves enough weight for a couple side plates or a couple liters of water before you get to 30.
I guess my point is, while it does take extra effort to work in, you also have to put some serious effort into loading it up to the point of awfulness.
I loaded a PC up to 38 lbs once as a test, and it took some doing- an AVS with 14lbs of armor + full ammo loadout, 3l bladder, etc- I stuffed a lot of needless shit onto it. (and yes, it did seem to work as advertised. Very good weight bearing comfort).

Sounds like you're pretty well set on things that are likely to be needed, so if you have the money, it won't hurt. I hope we never get to the point that its needed CONUS, but I wouldn't be that surprised nowadays. As far as brands and quality - Primary and Secondary has had at least one or two podcasts on it I think, I'd check those out. If it were me and all I could afford was steel like AR500, I'd either keep saving or not even bother.

This. Stop with the steel shit already. And the craptastic PCs they usually combo them with. For the weight of 2 plates, your in "whole loadout" weight territory I outlined above (16lbs or so). Weight aside, steel isn't as good as they claim ballistically, either at stopping shit, or to you.
Perhaps if I was assured I was going into combat tomorrow, and I had NO other option, I suppose I'd think about taking them.
Or wear a chest rig and run faster...

Also triple curve plates. Always. Trust me.

Now as far as the question; Should you have body armor? Well, you have a gun, I think the answer to this is obvious... Do you NEED body armor? That is the right question, and what you're going to have to look at in your life and guesstimations of the future to decide.
I'm in favor of owning it. However, for goodness sake, do it right the first time... you'll be happier, more comfortable, and likely actually to wear/train in your gear, which will make all the difference later if you need it.
And also make you cool as f*** and the envy of all other range-going peasants, which, in the end, flexing on the poors is really what makes this all worthwhile, right?

[Bimmer]

At one of them a local LEO let me try on his vest... I would guess it weighed about 30 lbs.

Whoa, I'm just talking about IIIA "soft" armor. I expected a full kit would weigh about 10-12lbs (3-4 for the carrier, 5-7 for the BALCS).

I'd recommend AR 500 so you don't have to worry about cracks.

I'm still trying to figure this out, but I assume that if I'm shopping for IIIA, then I'm shopping for soft armor and NO plates.

[The_War_Wagon]

Whoa, I'm just talking about IIIA "soft" armor. I expected a full kit would weigh about 10-12lbs (3-4 for the carrier, 5-7 for the BALCS).
I'm still trying to figure this out, but I assume that if I'm shopping for IIIA, then I'm shopping for soft armor and NO plates.

That's how I went. Got a good deal on a carrier years ago; just stuffed it with III-A and called it "good." I'm too old & fat to be running around with plates, and if someone wants to go to the good trouble to scotch me with a .308, more power to 'em.

I ALSO got some DAPS, neck & throat protection, and a groin protector, too. Since I went the carrier route, it all "connects" easily enough!