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Thread: Individual to Dealer Transfer Questions

  1. #1
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    Individual to Dealer Transfer Questions

    I'm very familiar with the Form 1's and Form 4 transfers to individuals, but am not at all familiar with the process of an individual transferring to a dealer. How does it work? I know that right now efiled Form 1's are taking about a month, dealer to dealer transfers are taking about a week, and Form 4 transfers to individuals are taking almost a year or so. How long are individual to dealer transfers taking? Am I correct that they cost $200?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bret View Post
    I'm very familiar with the Form 1's and Form 4 transfers to individuals, but am not at all familiar with the process of an individual transferring to a dealer. How does it work? I know that right now efiled Form 1's are taking about a month, dealer to dealer transfers are taking about a week, and Form 4 transfers to individuals are taking almost a year or so. How long are individual to dealer transfers taking? Am I correct that they cost $200?
    It’s a taxed ($200) form-4 transfer from non-SOT to SOT. No eFile for f4 currently, so paper only.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

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    So I bought a machinegun from an individual who is going to transfer it to my dealer. He said that he's done them before, but the dealer filled out the Form 4 and he just signed it and sent it in along with the $200. There's no rule on who has to fill out the forms and my dealer hasn't received a Form 4 transfer from an individual before, so I figured I'd give it a try. Everything on the Form 4 seems pretty straight forward, but I ran in to a couple of questions. The dealer's company is an LLC. Questions (18) and (19) asks for the number of responsible persons and the full name of each responsible person. According to the definition of responsible person (1)(e), the owner is an obvious responsible person, but it gets vague from there. The other people involved are the lady that does all of the NFA paperwork and other regular employees. The definition says "any individual who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or legal entity." Since everyone who works there can do transfers, it would technically include everyone as a responsible person. However, that doesn't seem logical to me. So is it just the owner and those directly involved in the paperwork for NFA transfers or is it literally every employee that works there?

    For question (13) Transferee Necessity Statement, what should a dealer receiving from an individual put? The instructions simply say that it must be completed. The Name and Title of the transferee has to be listed. Is this the name of the owner or the business name of the LLC? What is the reason to put?

    https://www.atf.gov/file/61546/download
    Last edited by Bret; 09-16-19 at 10:37.

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    The good news is that the only page the FFL needs to fill out is page 1 and the method of payment on page 3, a licensee can skip everything else including the CLEO notification. The instructions start on page 4 and clearly detail what is required of non-licensees vs licensees. More good news is individual to dealer transfers take a fraction of the time of transfers going to individuals. I've had individual to dealer transfers take anywhere from 5 weeks to just under 5 months but 2-3 months is fairly standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bret View Post
    So I bought a machinegun from an individual who is going to transfer it to my dealer. He said that he's done them before, but the dealer filled out the Form 4 and he just signed it and sent it in along with the $200. There's no rule on who has to fill out the forms and my dealer hasn't received a Form 4 transfer from an individual before, so I figured I'd give it a try. Everything on the Form 4 seems pretty straight forward, but I ran in to a couple of questions. The dealer's company is an LLC. Questions (18) and (19) asks for the number of responsible persons and the full name of each responsible person. According to the definition of responsible person (1)(e), the owner is an obvious responsible person, but it gets vague from there. The other people involved are the lady that does all of the NFA paperwork and other regular employees. The definition says "any individual who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or legal entity." Since everyone who works there can do transfers, it would technically include everyone as a responsible person. However, that doesn't seem logical to me. So is it just the owner and those directly involved in the paperwork for NFA transfers or is it literally every employee that works there?

    For question (13) Transferee Necessity Statement, what should a dealer receiving from an individual put? The instructions simply say that it must be completed. The Name and Title of the transferee has to be listed. Is this the name of the owner or the business name of the LLC? What is the reason to put?

    https://www.atf.gov/file/61546/download

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    Quote Originally Posted by b_saan View Post
    The instructions start on page 4 and clearly detail what is required of non-licensees vs licensees.
    I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. I read the instructions start to finish multiple times. The only thing that I could find that perhaps implies that the second page doesn't apply to licensed dealers is the definition of Responsible Person. One is left to infer that those items can be left blank even though the instructions don't explicitly indicate that each can be left blank for licensed dealers. It wouldn't have taken much to add such detail to the instructions. I'm an industrial engineer and write/modify/read SOP's (standard operating procedures) often. The instructions would have failed an audit because they're not easy for a typical user to understand. Of course someone in the know can fill in the gaps, but they likely don't need the instructions anyway.

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