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Thread: Recommendations for someone who isn't a "serious shooter."

  1. #1
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    Recommendations for someone who isn't a "serious shooter."

    I realize most members here shoot weekly, and shoot multiple thousands of rounds of ammo each year. I've gathered most guys here are current LE or some other profession that requires daily "serious" carry of guns in some form.

    What about the average Joe who does not work in LE, but who wants to equip himself to best protect his family in the face of the coming election and all the talk of tighter firearms restrictions in the government?

    The reality is that most guys don't have the time, money, or desire to go to any kind of tactical training classes. Most guys are going to buy something and go shoot it some at an indoor range, maybe every month or two if they're trying to stay relatively fresh.

    What sort of shopping list would be smart for guys in that situation, which is to say the majority of non-LE guys?

  2. #2
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    Recommendations for someone who isn't a "serious shooter.": Become one.

    An expectation of superior, or above average performance, without putting in the effort/trigger time, is doomed to failure.
    Dry fire is hugely beneficial, but requires verification with live fire.

    FYI, because one is active LE is NO guarantee of firearms ability or excellence.
    Those that exhibit superior skills do so because of their effort at honing those skills. Like everyone else.

  3. #3
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    A Glock 17/19 or an HK P2000 LEM

    10 mags minimum.

    I disagree with the whole "become one" per people who dont shoot or really care about guns. That is a bit of a turn off.

    Most people just want a handgun "just in case".
    Because some people are normies who may only shoot once in a blue moon but want to have a gun....you cannot top my two suggestions. They just work. Require little attention. And esp for Glock have a good logistics train.

    I try to steer people away from revolvers because they are more involved than people realize.

    That said, a solid pistol that instills confidence leads to branching interests in guns. But if not...they have something covering 80% of their bases.

    In times past, I would have forwarded a shotgun but times are different now with criminality that a shotgun simply isnt good for anything but hunting and social familiarization has removed a lot of the skeumorphic intuity people used to have for them.

    An AR is nice but....start with a pistol.

    Just my 2 cents. If you arent recommending a good basic class and are unwilling to lend help beyond suggestions; dont discuss guns with people.

    IRL I am no longer "the gun guy" and have not been for a long, long time

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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyblake View Post
    What about the average Joe who does not work in LE, but who wants to equip himself to best protect his family in the face of the coming election and all the talk of tighter firearms restrictions in the government?
    For basic personal defense, an appropriate, common handgun - Glock 17/19, M&P9 v2.0, Sig P320, etc. Take a CCW course, get your license, take more training courses. This is the most practical firearm to have.

    Unsure how to interpret "the coming election." If you are talking about serious disruption, then having two or more good rifles, ammo and training is what you would need. This is beyond what most of the people you describe are actually going to do, so it might be money wasted to go down that path.

    People often assume there will be a repeat of the '94 AWB, but who's to say that. Buy what makes the most sense to actually own and use regardless. That includes an adequate number of standard capacity mags for each pistol and rifle you own.
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    I had a buddy over recently and he was talking about how he thinks he may want an AR because of all the talk in the news. I was showing him one of mine and he asked how many magazines I had for it. When I answered he looked at me like I had said something in a foreign language. He then asked how much the red dot (T2) cost. When I answered he kind of chuckled, shook his head and handed the gun back to me.

    I appreciate the whole "buy a 6920, Aimpoint, 20 Pmags, and a few cases of M193" but that just isn't something that a non gun guy is going to digest.

    The Glock 19, mags, holster, ammo, is smart and an easy answer. At the same time the news cycle has everybody thinking they should buy an AR.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyblake View Post
    I realize most members here shoot weekly, and shoot multiple thousands of rounds of ammo each year. I've gathered most guys here are current LE or some other profession that requires daily "serious" carry of guns in some form.

    What about the average Joe who does not work in LE, but who wants to equip himself to best protect his family in the face of the coming election and all the talk of tighter firearms restrictions in the government?

    The reality is that most guys don't have the time, money, or desire to go to any kind of tactical training classes. Most guys are going to buy something and go shoot it some at an indoor range, maybe every month or two if they're trying to stay relatively fresh.

    What sort of shopping list would be smart for guys in that situation, which is to say the majority of non-LE guys?
    Get any decent mainstream pistol, whatever you need (g19, shield, whatever).
    Be able to hit a target and get serious for a few months.
    Dry fire, practice handling and manipulations, etc.
    Then go do a few matches and/or classes that involve movement.

    IME, being able to safely handle a gun under pressure and getting comfortable moving/running with a gun safely is difficult for people to do and I would not want to be in a SD situation trying to do it for the first time.

    Overall skills will diminish with time, but IMe they stop degrading at some point. If you put it up for a while, those basic skillsets and instincts stay for the most part.
    Last edited by MegademiC; 09-10-19 at 10:28.

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    Agree for that kind of person, better to not get overwhelmed with the whole "You need to immerse and adopt a POTG life and mindset." That's something that people will find they get into after a while or they don't, but either way, folks can and should do basic preparation.

    I'd start with a 9mm pistol (agree with 100% of the previous suggestions, my current is an M&P Gen 2 compact 4"), FMJ ammo (practice), some quality JHP ammo (defense), and a handheld or weapon-mounted light. I'd add a kydex holster--lots of good suggestions in the sticky thread in semiauto pistols--lately I prefer Dale Fricke holsters. Identify a range where you can join or go shoot at least monthly. And finally--though it may not be realistic to expect this person to take a bunch of fancy training classes with the jedi guys--I'd get at least one or two locally run training class that cover the basics of safe pistol handling, concealed carry, and home defense.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyblake View Post
    I had a buddy over recently and he was talking about how he thinks he may want an AR because of all the talk in the news. I was showing him one of mine and he asked how many magazines I had for it. When I answered he looked at me like I had said something in a foreign language. He then asked how much the red dot (T2) cost. When I answered he kind of chuckled, shook his head and handed the gun back to me.

    I appreciate the whole "buy a 6920, Aimpoint, 20 Pmags, and a few cases of M193" but that just isn't something that a non gun guy is going to digest.

    The Glock 19, mags, holster, ammo, is smart and an easy answer. At the same time the news cycle has everybody thinking they should buy an AR.
    You did your buddy a disservice, were you trying to talk him out of getting an AR? Any non gun guy looking to get into the game needs to be steered to a decent entry level AR, a decent budget RDS, and a few good mags. The rest will come later naturally or if not he will still have a serviceable rifle.
    “The Trump Doctrine is ‘We’re America, Bitch.’ That’s the Trump Doctrine.”

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    Not sure what "LE" status has to do with anything. Most cops aren't like the LE guys who are members here, and in tune with good gear and stuff.

    I'd guess that many non-LE guys here run a gun harder than many cops. That said... there's no excuse to buy cheap junk just because you're not a cop.

    We know a kid who bought a S&W Sport AR. He doesn't shoot much at all, and we've had to fix a lot of broken stuff on that POS. Mag catch busted (crippling the gun)... I mean.. WTF? You can't save your life with a worthless gun.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  10. #10
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    There are levels of "isnt a serious shooter". Are they the kind that sometimes shoot or are they the type that bought a fire extinguisher?

    I know both types. Most of my family is the fire extinguisher type. They don't know or care about the differences in types of firearms and why one is better than the other. None are going to be buying long guns and none are political. While they may favor one candidate over another or one party over the other it's not because of 2A.

    For these people I ask how much they want to spend and what the plans are for the gun. Then I give examples of quality guns in each price range and let them decide. They're not going to understand the difference between striker and hammer or brand A vs brand B or even caliber A vs B. None of them are going to carry so I give examples of duty size guns...G17-19 size. And I'll recommend HK, Glock, M&P, CZ, Beretta, Sig...

    For the group that is at least a little knowledgeable Ill be a little more in depth because they understand what it means if I say a 40 is snappy or the need for more than one mag and a box of ammo. But in the end they buy what they want to and usually base it on price. It used to kinda bother me....like I know you know better....I know you have the information to make a more informed decision. But then I realized that even though they know they don't really care based on how much they shoot. I've been offering a friend to go in on mags and ammo. We could split it. He's not interested, doesn't want to spend the money and I realized that he's right. He shoots once in a while....like a long while....like once every few years....and what he has is plenty for how he shoots.

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