Hilton Yam's first impressions of the STI Staccato P (video)

[glocktogo]

I hate to be that guy, but even as someone who CCW, competed with, took courses with, a 1911 for a decade + before transitioning to polymer wonder pistols, I'd have to say get the G19/M&P/Vp9 and spend the extra on ammo, mags, and training.

As a competition shooter for over 15 years, I won state, regional and national titles with Glocks, 1911's and S&W revolvers. I can shoot all of them fast but my accuracy is definitely best with the 1911 platform.

[WillBrink]

As a competition shooter for over 15 years, I won state, regional and national titles with Glocks, 1911's and S&W revolvers. I can shoot all of them fast but my accuracy is definitely best with the 1911 platform.

That generally goes without saying if that's the primary focus of the shooter sure. 1911s make mediocre shooters like me look good. The HK V9 is the most accurate out of the box polymer double stack 9mm wonder pistol I have personally owned, but that's not like I have shot them all either. For myself, for a SD/HD pistol, accuracy is below reliability, capacity, etc in my priorities. My M&P was not very accurate for example, but it was a total garbage eater and shot anything and everything I put through it and at SD distances, accurate "enough for gubment work." So far, the Vp9 has impressive accuracy for my needs/recs and reliability. If someone made an after market slide stop for it that better fit my grip, it would be plastic pistol perfection for me. The one major gripe many have with the Vp9 is the location and design of the slide stop makes to too easy to ride on and fails to lock back on the last rnd.

[maximus83]

In the Wilson the magazine was designed for the 9MM and would seem to be more reliable if everything else equal.

Good point, and aligns with the impression that the Wilson has more completely re-engineered the EDC X9 to build a modern weapon with 1911-like virtues but none of its drawbacks, and develop it around the assumption of a 9mm cartridge to optimize reliability. But that's all theoretical advantages until we have actual hands-on performance data. Hilton gave one informal but useful data point about the STI platform in general: it has been possibly THE most winning pistol platform in USPSA comps, which establishes it has met at least that threshold of real-world reliability. But it would sure be awesome to (legally :-) ) get access to actual proprietary manufacturer data on reliability testing for feeding/firing/extraction, hard use testing, and long-term durability testing of the frames and key components, etc.

[Dump1567]

Good point, and aligns with the impression that the Wilson has more completely re-engineered the EDC X9 to build a modern weapon with 1911-like virtues but none of its drawbacks, and develop it around the assumption of a 9mm cartridge to optimize reliability. But that's all theoretical advantages until we have actual hands-on performance data. Hilton gave one informal but useful data point about the STI platform in general: it has been possibly THE most winning pistol platform in USPSA comps, which establishes it has met at least that threshold of real-world reliability. But it would sure be awesome to (legally :-) ) get access to actual proprietary manufacturer data on reliability testing for feeding/firing/extraction, hard use testing, and long-term durability testing of the frames and key components, etc.

Until the EDC has been run in high round count matches for 25 years, the STI wins hands down. I know just from my competition days shooting my STI Edge in .40, it ran flawlessly. And there was times I shot 3 matches a weekend with it (400-600 rounds).

Ken Hackathorn makes an interesting comment in one of his video's he does with Wilson on reliability. "How reliable does your carry gun need to be?" "30 rounds, as that's all the ammo I have on me".

[glocktogo]

That generally goes without saying if that's the primary focus of the shooter sure. 1911s make mediocre shooters like me look good. The HK V9 is the most accurate out of the box polymer double stack 9mm wonder pistol I have personally owned, but that's not like I have shot them all either. For myself, for a SD/HD pistol, accuracy is below reliability, capacity, etc in my priorities. My M&P was not very accurate for example, but it was a total garbage eater and shot anything and everything I put through it and at SD distances, accurate "enough for gubment work." So far, the Vp9 has impressive accuracy for my needs/recs and reliability. If someone made an after market slide stop for it that better fit my grip, it would be plastic pistol perfection for me. The one major gripe many have with the Vp9 is the location and design of the slide stop makes to too easy to ride on and fails to lock back on the last rnd.

I used to feel that way too. But times change and the trends we’re seeing with bad actors using more sophisticated weapons, attacking in groups and becoming more familiar with the concept of TTP’s, I’m placing more emphasis on capacity and accuracy than I used to. The ability to make a clutch head shot on an AS or someone potentially wearing body armor makes me rethink “enough for gubment work”.

Trust me I understand the need for reliability. None of my comp guns favored extreme accuracy over reliability. I was known as someone whose stuff was sorted and always worked. I do all my own gun plumbing except refinishing, because I really don’t care about looks. Having run multiple 1911’s in competition (Colt, Dan Wesson and WC), I know how to make them run like a sewing machine. Most of my major match loads were JHP’s too, at least in the autos.

So getting something like a P Duo for defense work may not work for everyone, but I think I’d be OK.

[yoni]

I have no issues with pistols that cost money, since I own more than a few HK P7's and a few custom Hi Powers.

Both of these pistols are very cool, but as I have gone through the thread and watched the video. One thing kept coming into my head, how great my CZ Cagun P07 is. For about $1200 bucks total I have a pistol that matches the trigger pull and reset in single action of these 2 great guns, plus it has a RMR on it. I can carry it double action, so just present it and shoot, no safety to hit so it has Glock like function.

Now having said that the STI is starting to call my name, just a whisper for now.

[Hammer27]

The 1911/2011 trigger is a huge advantage not only because it is single action but because it is not hinged. It's the only only trigger out there like it, save for the Hudson H9 and something obscure I'm sure I'm missing.
On a properly configured 2011, with a shooter who has a modicum of training, the safeties are not an issue.
Grab an STI or other good double stack 1911 and I promise you, you're going to have a hard time shooting anything else willingly.

I have no issues with pistols that cost money, since I own more than a few HK P7's and a few custom Hi Powers.

Both of these pistols are very cool, but as I have gone through the thread and watched the video. One thing kept coming into my head, how great my CZ Cagun P07 is. For about $1200 bucks total I have a pistol that matches the trigger pull and reset in single action of these 2 great guns, plus it has a RMR on it. I can carry it double action, so just present it and shoot, no safety to hit so it has Glock like function.

Now having said that the STI is starting to call my name, just a whisper for now.

[WillBrink]

I used to feel that way too. But times change and the trends we’re seeing with bad actors using more sophisticated weapons, attacking in groups and becoming more familiar with the concept of TTP’s, I’m placing more emphasis on capacity and accuracy than I used to. The ability to make a clutch head shot on an AS or someone potentially wearing body armor makes me rethink “enough for gubment work”.

Trust me I understand the need for reliability. None of my comp guns favored extreme accuracy over reliability. I was known as someone whose stuff was sorted and always worked. I do all my own gun plumbing except refinishing, because I really don’t care about looks. Having run multiple 1911’s in competition (Colt, Dan Wesson and WC), I know how to make them run like a sewing machine. Most of my major match loads were JHP’s too, at least in the autos.

So getting something like a P Duo for defense work may not work for everyone, but I think I’d be OK.

That's one reason I moved to the VP9 from the M&P, accuracy of the HK is better. Whether I'm good enough to really benefit from it is another matter.

[glocktogo]

That's one reason I moved to the VP9 from the M&P, accuracy of the HK is better. Whether I'm good enough to really benefit from it is another matter.

Granted it was an early one, but I tried to campaign an M&P .40 for a year. It felt great in the hand and the trigger on my example was tuned and quite phenomenal for a striker fired gun. Accuracy was very subpar and when I tried to improve it with a Storm Lake barrel (the only one available at the time for the M&P), reliability suffered. I was just never able to perform as well with it as a Glock or 1911. Even the best trigger I've ever felt in a Glock wouldn't compare to the trigger in my Colt, much less the WC or DW.

Inherently, either my G-34 with a drop-in Bar-Sto or G-17 with a hand fitted Bar-Sto (both with Dawson adjustable sights) could mostly hang with the WC or DW off a rest using tuned loads, but not in the hand. The DW is one of the most accurate centerfire pistols I've ever shot and the trigger is simply stunning. Anyone who shoots it instantly feels like a superhero, it's just that good. If I can get 8/10ths of that in a carry gun then I can't imagine ever needing or being able to capitalize on more.

[WillBrink]

Granted it was an early one, but I tried to campaign an M&P .40 for a year. It felt great in the hand and the trigger on my example was tuned and quite phenomenal for a striker fired gun. Accuracy was very subpar and when I tried to improve it with a Storm Lake barrel (the only one available at the time for the M&P), reliability suffered. I was just never able to perform as well with it as a Glock or 1911. Even the best trigger I've ever felt in a Glock wouldn't compare to the trigger in my Colt, much less the WC or DW.

Inherently, either my G-34 with a drop-in Bar-Sto or G-17 with a hand fitted Bar-Sto (both with Dawson adjustable sights) could mostly hang with the WC or DW off a rest using tuned loads, but not in the hand. The DW is one of the most accurate centerfire pistols I've ever shot and the trigger is simply stunning. Anyone who shoots it instantly feels like a superhero, it's just that good. If I can get 8/10ths of that in a carry gun then I can't imagine ever needing or being able to capitalize on more.

The base M&P needed many mods and upgrades to get from it what it was capable of and other than the subpar accuracy, it was what had me transition to a double stack 9mm wonder pistol, and i liked it. The Vp9 does all that without mods, is more accurate, and never fails to impress me for the $ and out of the box accuracy etc. There's now after market triggers, etc for the Vp9 I hear take the pistol to another level, but I have not bothered looking it as I'm not that interested in tweaking firearms as i once was. Only complaint I and others have had is location and design of the slide stop, that and it does not like be thrown against trees and such.