Impeachment

[Uni-Vibe]

Like I said earlier at this point I don’t care if they got a video of President Trump handing a wad of cash to Ukraine as they hand over a Biden indictment. This whole impeachment fiasco has absolutely nothing to do with the rule of law and everything to do with the ComDems trying to affect the 2020 elections and extreme butt hurt over HRC losing in 2016.

And this, right here, is the problem. Trump is a charismatic cult leader whose supporters hold him to no moral or legal standards.

Do you want to be a citizen, or a subject?

[Uni-Vibe]

I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong. U-V is getting what he wants with Sondland, because he's singing like a bird. Not that he's winning any points with either side right now.

The Vibe is vindicated! Sondland is now telling the whole truth. And he has corroborating documents. Sondland is the John Dean of Ukrainegate.

Americans must now decide: are they to be a citizens or subjects? (It's much easier to be a subject).

[Sry0fcr]

Like I said earlier at this point I don’t care if they got a video of President Trump handing a wad of cash to Ukraine as they hand over a Biden indictment. This whole impeachment fiasco has absolutely nothing to do with the rule of law and everything to do with the ComDems trying to affect the 2020 elections and extreme butt hurt over HRC losing in 2016.

So you don't care if President Trump abuses his power to damage a political opponent that he might face in the 2020 election because the ComDems are impeaching him for it in order to affect the 2020 elections?

[glocktogo]

Like I said earlier at this point I don’t care if they got a video of President Trump handing a wad of cash to Ukraine as they hand over a Biden indictment. This whole impeachment fiasco has absolutely nothing to do with the rule of law and everything to do with the ComDems trying to affect the 2020 elections and extreme butt hurt over HRC losing in 2016.

It's half that, half trying to make sure the public never comes to the realization that they HEAVILY undermined the 2016 election.

ALL U.S. foreign aid comes with strings attached. Hell, federal aid to our own states always has strings attached. Nothing is truly "free". Demanding that Ukraine expose 2016 election interference and Obama Administration corruption is NOT automatically using the power of the Oval Office to attack a political opponent. Filing candidacy papers does not come with blanket immunity.

Yet once again, Trump himself is his own worst enemy. By not firing everyone when he came into office the way Obama did, he ensured the official avenues with which to implement his policies are mined and unusable. Then when he does an end round, he picks the least reliable and most bumbling, disloyal people he can find to handle sensitive matters. It's like he doesn't even comprehend that everyone is his enemy, even as he's saying everyone is his enemy. SMH...

[flenna]

So you don't care if President Trump abuses his power to damage a political opponent that he might face in the 2020 election because the ComDems are impeaching him for it in order to affect the 2020 elections?

If there was a legitimate crime, yes. What they have shown so far is nothing but theater. Here is a good analogy: We don’t like SryOfcr and want to remove him from the forum. So we are going to listen to all his and his associates’ phone calls, read their texts and emails and follow them around. Three years later: Bam! We got him! Let’s hold secret meetings and secret testimonies and once we figure out if it makes good theater we go public with the witnesses we like.

[Sry0fcr]

If there was a legitimate crime, yes. What they have shown so far is nothing but theater. Here is a good analogy: We don’t like SryOfcr and want to remove him from the forum. So we are going to listen to all his and his associates’ phone calls, read their texts and emails and follow them around. Three years later: Bam! We got him! Let’s hold secret meetings and secret testimonies and once we figure out if it makes good theater we go public with the witnesses we like.

If that were the case, I'd probably just mind my behavior instead of putting on a thinly veiled scheme with my associates. Especially with/around a bunch of them that I "barely know" or "never heard of".

[flenna]

If that were the case, I'd probably just mind my behavior instead of putting on a thinly veiled scheme with my associates. Especially with/around a bunch of them that I "barely know" or "never heard of".

I agree with you there.

[Sry0fcr]

Did Ken Starr just say that live on Fox?

[glocktogo]

Did Ken Starr just say that live on Fox?

Say what?

[26 Inf]

And this, right here, is the problem. Trump is a charismatic cult leader whose supporters hold him to no moral or legal standards.

Do you want to be a citizen, or a subject?

I tend to agree with maybe everything but the legal standards, there are some folks who truly believe what President Trump did wasn't wrong in the world of politics. Kind of like this: a good percentage of spouses (men and women) cheat on their mates, so if so many do it, it isn't really wrong.

ETA: I don't think that in and of itself, what President Trump did warrants impeachment.

As for the citizen or subject, IIRC there were some folks on this very forum who were voicing the idea that President Obama might try some shenanigan to stay in office. Quite frankly, I think it is a more likely scenario that if defeated in 2020, President Trump will call the election invalid and refuse to leave office.

Yep, I think that is not outside the realm of possibility.