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Thread: Airstrikes launched as Turkey begins northern Syria military operation

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidbattlecry View Post
    I see people here saying they aren't willing to sacrifice their sons or daughters for the Kurds, that why should we send them there. The thing is we asked them to do the exact same thing And they did. It's a stain on the honor of the US for us to give the finger to allies that so helped us.
    The thing is, the American people didn't ask anything of the kurds. I don't know of anyone who supported going into Syria in the first place.

    I feel zero obligation to be there. We should have never been there in the first place. The president that I voted for, did what I would have wanted him to do.

    Even if Trump is an idiot, he is overall, still doing the things that I voted for.

    Sent from my moto e5 (XT1920DL) using Tapatalk

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWPilgrim View Post
    Before anyone criticizes pulling out of Syria ask yourself why we are there? What grand US interest are we fighting for?

    1) ISIS. Well we laid the groundwork for the creation of ISIS by running arms to Syria from Libya and funding rebel groups to try to topple Assad. One group went more vicious than planned and over ran Iraqis supply depots we created along with banks we probably helped fund. All because of our meddling.

    2) Saudis. They are very nervous about the spread of Iranian power so having us destabilize an sally/proxy of Iran, Syria, is all good for them and screw the US for whatever mess they get themselves embroiled in. Thanks House of Saud.

    3) Pipelines. RUSSIA-UKRAINE pipeline supplies natural gas to Europe (oh yes another area in conflict, coincidentally). IRAN-LEBANON pipeline was being planned/built through Iraq, Syria and Lebanon then undersea to Europe. Was originally going through Turkey but Iran changed plans. Turkey mad. Russia not like competition unless they get a slice. On hold while Syria is in turmoil (who wants to keep Syria destabilized?). QATAR-TURKEY pipeline is proposed competitor to Iran pipeline and of course existing Russian, and supported by Saudis and US but can’t happen with Assad in power.

    4) Petro Dollar. Our politicians want unlimited spending to continue. This is main reason we can run $500B-$1.5T deficits for the last 10 years. We need Saudi support to keep Petro Dollar in power. We therefore attack anyone the Saudis tell us to smash. Saudis want Assad out of Syria or at least destabilized. So we create rebel groups, ISIS emerges, we keep stirring the pot.

    That is why we need troops there to fight and die for decades. We accomplished in 2-3 months in both Afghanistan and Iraq the crushing of terrorist threat to the US. All other occupation is for reasons stated above.
    2 & 4 by themselves explain most of what we've done in the ME since Reagan.
    Last edited by Tx_Aggie; 10-15-19 at 21:01.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey_Bravo View Post
    I hope we are in the planning stages of pulling out of Turkey and taking all of our toys with us. Turkey is not our friend and should not be in NATO.
    This is what concerns me the most. We have several thousand US troops sitting right smack dab in the middle of that craphole. And I for one don't trust Erdogan not to be the ultimate d-bag and trying to get at what's underground at Incirlik. Not only that, but steamrolling right over the troops there to protect them because he wants the power.

    I can only hope (as I've had suspicions a long time) they have removed the critical components on those things and replaced them with ultra realistic fakes as soon as he came into power.
    Experience is a cruel teacher, gives the exam first and then the lesson.

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    A little over 8 years ago it was early 2011. A decade had passed since 9/11 and a good friend of mine was deploying as a scout/sniper to Afghanistan. In my tired old eyes, he was a youngling I'd trained to shoot fast and hard with a pistol during many days training and competing on a square range. Having been deployed in the ME many, many years before and knowing he may soon do likewise, we talked often about military ops and things like patriotism. I could see in him what I had been all those years ago, still gung-ho and willing to "defend America" halfway across the world.

    When he got orders to go to Afghanistan, one of my final talks with him was about the last man. We'd been in Afghanistan for a decade at that point and it looked far less like pursuing bin Laden (who hadn't been in Afghanistan in years) and more like Russia's Afghanistan war redux. So I talked at length about how we weren't actually accomplishing anything there, that no one ever remembers the last man killed in the last days of a war, and to not skyline himself for country or glory, because the country doesn't need it and there's no glory in being the last man to die. I specifically told him to ostensibly follow orders, but that no one will care if he comes back to base camp from patrol having neither seen nor engaged any hostiles. Just make it look good and come home alive.

    On 9 September, 2011, he and two others in his platoon were killed in a Taliban ambush. For what? In the fall of 2011, what was strategically important to the United States in Paktya, Afghanistan? Not a ****ing thing. Did any of those goat ****ers shooting holes in him ever meet bin Laden or al Zawahiri? Nope. Were they fighting for them? Nope. They could've just as easily been fighting the Russians or the British or Alexander the Great. Wash, rinse, repeat...

    So what did we gain from his death? Nothing. In exchange for all the gunpowder we'll never burn together and all the beer we'll never drink afterwards, I have a black bracelet on my wrist and a memorial highway sign with his name on it I drive past every day on my way home from work. That's the worst trade in the history of trades. Consider the jading of glocktogo 100% complete and then some.

    I tend to think that out of all the indigenous peoples in that region, the Kurds are likely the least offensive. They're stateless, relatively powerless and have been persecuted for centuries. They mostly just want to be left alone. The people aligned against them are ISIS, the Turks, possibly some Syrian hostiles and all the leftovers in Southern Iraq? Sorry, I see no good guys on the roster. So if anyone asked me whether I'd recommend joining the military to "defend our country" and help spread "democracy", I'd tell them they've lost their ****ing minds. Sure if you don't have any opportunities whatsoever, by all means join the .mil in a non-combat, mostly stateside support role and save some bank while using them for all the education benefits you can get, but an open ended contract? Yeah, that's gonna be a no from me dawg.

    When an actual existential threat to the United States from without appears on the far horizon I may change my tune. Till then I'm all for pulling back and nuking it from orbit, just to make sure.
    Experience is a cruel teacher, gives the exam first and then the lesson.

  5. #175
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    Spoke too soon...

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey...-hostage-syria

    Officials are reviewing plans to evacuate up to 50 U.S. nuclear bombs that have long been stored at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey in the wake of Ankara's military offensive in northern Syria, according to a report.

    The weapons are now essentially "hostage" to Turkish leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a senior official told The New York Times on Monday.

    The Cold War-era B61 nuclear bombs are said to be 100-250 miles from the Syrian border, according to The Guardian. A former U.S. official told the outlet that Turkish diplomats responded to suggestions about moving the bombs by saying Turkey would start to develop its own.

    "The potential problems have been discussed for over a decade," the former official said. "And now we’ve finally gotten to a point where this is a problem that we can’t ignore anymore."
    Again, I have my doubts on whether or not they are actually live regardless of NATO Nuclear Sharing policy.
    Experience is a cruel teacher, gives the exam first and then the lesson.

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    Do you honestly believe the US deserves any indigenous allies fighting on our behalf when we decide to invade some place at this point?

    I don't. That's just one more reason we shouldn't be going there, much less staying there.


    The entire point of my post is that we owe them them nothing and we needed to leave Syria. The Kurds there fought with us due to the points I mentioned. The US doesn't "deserve" anything in that area, that is why we buy it with cash, weapons, ammo, and protection.

    As I have already mentioned in this thread, we need to be 100% out of Syria and we also need to pull out Turkey. They are part of NATO in name only and we should not have our people or nukes there.
    Whiskey

    May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    A little over 8 years ago it was early 2011. A decade had passed since 9/11 and a good friend of mine was deploying as a scout/sniper to Afghanistan. In my tired old eyes, he was a youngling I'd trained to shoot fast and hard with a pistol during many days training and competing on a square range. Having been deployed in the ME many, many years before and knowing he may soon do likewise, we talked often about military ops and things like patriotism. I could see in him what I had been all those years ago, still gung-ho and willing to "defend America" halfway across the world.

    When he got orders to go to Afghanistan, one of my final talks with him was about the last man. We'd been in Afghanistan for a decade at that point and it looked far less like pursuing bin Laden (who hadn't been in Afghanistan in years) and more like Russia's Afghanistan war redux. So I talked at length about how we weren't actually accomplishing anything there, that no one ever remembers the last man killed in the last days of a war, and to not skyline himself for country or glory, because the country doesn't need it and there's no glory in being the last man to die. I specifically told him to ostensibly follow orders, but that no one will care if he comes back to base camp from patrol having neither seen nor engaged any hostiles. Just make it look good and come home alive.

    On 9 September, 2011, he and two others in his platoon were killed in a Taliban ambush. For what? In the fall of 2011, what was strategically important to the United States in Paktya, Afghanistan? Not a ****ing thing. Did any of those goat ****ers shooting holes in him ever meet bin Laden or al Zawahiri? Nope. Were they fighting for them? Nope. They could've just as easily been fighting the Russians or the British or Alexander the Great. Wash, rinse, repeat...

    So what did we gain from his death? Nothing. In exchange for all the gunpowder we'll never burn together and all the beer we'll never drink afterwards, I have a black bracelet on my wrist and a memorial highway sign with his name on it I drive past every day on my way home from work. That's the worst trade in the history of trades. Consider the jading of glocktogo 100% complete and then some.

    I tend to think that out of all the indigenous peoples in that region, the Kurds are likely the least offensive. They're stateless, relatively powerless and have been persecuted for centuries. They mostly just want to be left alone. The people aligned against them are ISIS, the Turks, possibly some Syrian hostiles and all the leftovers in Southern Iraq? Sorry, I see no good guys on the roster. So if anyone asked me whether I'd recommend joining the military to "defend our country" and help spread "democracy", I'd tell them they've lost their ****ing minds. Sure if you don't have any opportunities whatsoever, by all means join the .mil in a non-combat, mostly stateside support role and save some bank while using them for all the education benefits you can get, but an open ended contract? Yeah, that's gonna be a no from me dawg.

    When an actual existential threat to the United States from without appears on the far horizon I may change my tune. Till then I'm all for pulling back and nuking it from orbit, just to make sure.
    These are all of my concerns exactly. Nothing we have accomplished is worth the cost of blood and resources. There had to be a better way.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  8. #178
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    Cease fire and mil withdrawl just announced

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey_Bravo View Post
    The entire point of my post is that we owe them them nothing and we needed to leave Syria. The Kurds there fought with us due to the points I mentioned. The US doesn't "deserve" anything in that area, that is why we buy it with cash, weapons, ammo, and protection.

    As I have already mentioned in this thread, we need to be 100% out of Syria and we also need to pull out Turkey. They are part of NATO in name only and we should not have our people or nukes there.
    Agreed.
    What if this whole crusade's a charade?
    And behind it all there's a price to be paid
    For the blood which we dine
    Justified in the name of the holy and the divine…

  10. #180
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    If the Congress wants a war, they can declare a war. I’d love to see what the declaration would look like.

    It’s like Trump sold a position in a stock when Congress wasn’t looking. They can buy it back if they want....
    The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.

    It's that simple.

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