Cali Power Outage

[pinzgauer]

I really wish east coasters would not comment on things they know nothing about. One of those being forest succession in Western States. We have had 15,000 years of Indian burning our forests for hunting purposes each fall. We live in a sub-climax fores setting which is prone to rapidly spreading fires. "Controlled burns" or native burning for hunting desiccate the environment. Australia went from a seasonal monsoon forest to a desert because of Aboriginal burning practices. We were part way there in California. Leave nature alone.

Ahhh, got it... Ignorant east coast flatlanders

Smokey da bear was right, those durn indians.

Son and daughter-in-law are wildlife biologists, both working for DNR. Both with time working as biologists for state and federal parks early in their career. Son worked for the forester for one of the largest contigious private forests in the east.

Even western USFS districts and similar have now admitted previous mgt policies were flat wrong. Fire is a natural part of forest mgt.

Decades of fire suppresion have created problems as well as actually harmed reproduction/growth cycles of the forests themselves.

If understory was not allowed to build for decades, the huge out of control fires are less likely. Not impossible, can't control the wind. But less fuel, faster recovery, etc. Many trees recover from fires without unnatural undergrowth/understory.

It's made worse by our tendency to put homes in the middle of the big woods.

[armtx77]

The solar panel owners who are in shock, that their no battery system does not provide their home with electricity, is priceless.
Even better, the Tesla owners who cant pay $5.25 a gallon to fuel up.

[soulezoo]

We had a wildfire here in August that burned 50 homes started by a tree falling from outside the power line easement into the powerline. People were up in arms about it, the same people that were bitching that the power company was clearing trees from their easement two months prior.

Now they want to sue the power company, which is a co-op. So, if the power co-op loses, the same people that sued will be paying for the lawsuit they won (along with the rest of us). They very likely won't win since the tree came from outside the easement.

People are dumb.

The lawyers win.

[soulezoo]

The problem is Blue State California has their power cut. We in Red State California are used to this. But it is the power company's fault. They cost all of you non-Californians millions and millions of dollars fighting fires on federal lands and the government was too chicken-----t to go after them for the money. Instead, the company used federal courts and bankruptcy protection to evade their responsibilities. Now, they are tying to punish citizens of California for their problems. But there is a solution.

They are in bankruptcy and cannot move laterally so to speak---they cannot sell the company now. Now, the State Legislature should mandate installation of underground lines and forbid the company from passing the cost on to consumers. It is a cost of doing business in the eco-bio-climato-world of California. After they do this then mandate a breakup of the company.

Sigh....
Underground lines are just not feasible for much of the areas affected by the blackouts.

Sure, where I am in Wyoming, it's great! Not so much in much of the area you refer to.

[soulezoo]

It’s tricky.

Like. I’m not opposed to green measures, Solar Power, Nuclear Power(if properly maintained), ethical hunting and culling of wildlife (which has zip to do with 2A which is very much about the civil use of arms and righteous killing of enemies foreign and domestic), cleaner cars, etc etc.

But all else being equal the US is nowhere near the pollution pit of Red China, Japan, or Russia.

I think we can harness technology to live with nature as opposed to against it. No I don’t think we should eat bugs or go Vegan.

Our worst problem is overpopulation. These other countries are defecating too many humans and are coming here. Usually disease and war would keep that in check but every dollar you donate to UNICEF pretty much empowers some denizen of a shithole to grow to maturity, breed, then blow himself up or die in tribal warfare.

Like not everywhere needs a strip mall or a project house. And I don’t mean rank elitism here.

Just preserving what we have and not over relying on these other places.

There’s a happy medium but nobody wants to go there. Just bitch about it.

We don’t call a spade a spade.

Ted Roosevelt understood it and would be considered a barbarian by today’s social metric

At some point I’d like a Solar Powered house if it is more cost effective, and I hear it is.

There’s options that don’t require us to be hippies or metrosexuals

I love you man.
Not that kind of love... but you know what I mean.

[soulezoo]

Solar power houses are part of the problem with the grid. Gov mandates that the power co’s buy excess power and there are less paying customers to maintain the distribution system. This has become a problem that no one wants to talk about then everyone shrieks when a rate hike happens. So when your Ga power bill jumps $50 a month next year, thank everyone who is “off the grid” but still tied in for back up and not paying for any maintainence. Now think of the impact those 1000 acre solar farms are having.

Those with solar power in CA and still connected to the grid have to pay a monthly "connection fee" that covers that. It's about $10 a month currently.

[soulezoo]

Ahhh, got it... Ignorant east coast flatlanders

Smokey da bear was right, those durn indians.

Son and daughter-in-law are wildlife biologists, both working for DNR. Both with time working as biologists for state and federal parks early in their career. Son worked for the forester for one of the largest contigious private forests in the east.

Even western USFS districts and similar have now admitted previous mgt policies were flat wrong. Fire is a natural part of forest mgt.

Decades of fire suppresion have created problems as well as actually harmed reproduction/growth cycles of the forests themselves.

If understory was not allowed to build for decades, the huge out of control fires are less likely. Not impossible, can't control the wind. But less fuel, faster recovery, etc. Many trees recover from fires without unnatural undergrowth/understory.

It's made worse by our tendency to put homes in the middle of the big woods.

Truth.

[Dr. Bullseye]

Ahhh, got it... Ignorant east coast flatlanders

Smokey da bear was right, those durn indians.

Son and daughter-in-law are wildlife biologists, both working for DNR. Both with time working as biologists for state and federal parks early in their career. Son worked for the forester for one of the largest contigious private forests in the east.

Even western USFS districts and similar have now admitted previous mgt policies were flat wrong. Fire is a natural part of forest mgt.

Decades of fire suppresion have created problems as well as actually harmed reproduction/growth cycles of the forests themselves.

If understory was not allowed to build for decades, the huge out of control fires are less likely. Not impossible, can't control the wind. But less fuel, faster recovery, etc. Many trees recover from fires without unnatural undergrowth/understory.

It's made worse by our tendency to put homes in the middle of the big woods.

Have them go to Australia and explain all this at Alice Springs. Fire 100%, always damages a forest. It is a natural produce of the USFS's plan to keep firefighters in a paycheck, that is it.

Tell your biologist relatives I live in a Sequoia forest. I have a Sequoia tree on my property which is over 200 ft. high and 52 feet in diameter. But I have about 17 smaller Sequoia trees which are anywhere from 100 ft. to six feet. There are may small Sequoia trees on neighboring properties of similar young age. We have had no fires here in at least 200 years. Yet according to the biologists of the USFS and the US Park Service, this is impossible. Sequoia trees, according to them, need chemical soil to germinate and fire to open the cones. None of these biologists have ever studied Indian hunting methods and when cross examined by me concerning their "theories", they just fall apart.

Forests do not happen by themselves. They are a product of a series of vegetative communities starting with the last fire. Ferns, small shrubs, grass, higher shrubs, first trees, second tier trees, and finally climax vegetation all appear over many years. Climax vegetation in a forest is damp. It is hard to burn. In California in October most soil is like digging in cement. But go down one foot at my house the soil is damp.

Tell your biologists the soil, vegetation and climate (yes climate) are all on a feedback loop. You can change rainfall by changing the vegetation but to change vegetation you have to change the soil. Now reverse this statement. A climax forest is humid and clouds form over the that area which reflects sunlight less. The roots of specific trees need specific bacteria in the soil for them to develop. Fire destroys every aspect of this feedback loop. If the forest is only slightly burnt, the duff is burn or the lower tier of shrubs are burnt, the forest is retarded in its development towards a climax forest. This seems to be the goal of forest management because most of them have never even seen a climax forest. All they have is pictures of forests 150 years old or so and compare them to modern forests. They say those depleted forests are the goal. But his is totally wrong. Those forests are still recovering from 15,000 years of Indian burning. It takes more time than the white man has been in North America for a forest to recover.

I hope it is clear that your biologists only have part of the picture.

[HardToHandle]

The core issue in California is inverse condemnation legal theory, which applies only in California. While wildfires are comparably impactful elsewhere, the public policy environment in California is what has manufactured the crisis.

In the rest of the *world*, a wildfire started by power line is worked out on a sliding scale of culpability. In California, the entire liability is all hung around the neck of the utility serving the needs of the public (and is legally required to serve everyone) even if they went to heroic lengths to prevent the fire. That is why PG&E is broke - a $6bn company with $10bn of liability that can only exist in California.

Good summary - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-condemnation

Furthermore, the power shut offs are actually dictated by the state’s Public Utility Commission. The utilities are only implementing a consent degree the state government forced them to do. The state legislature and Governor were told this would happen over the last legislative session...but did nothing to forestall what was predicted.

You get the government you vote for... California is Exhibit #1 this week.
Listening to Marin County whine is... Cosmic justice.

[Dr. Bullseye]

Sigh....
Underground lines are just not feasible for much of the areas affected by the blackouts.

Sure, where I am in Wyoming, it's great! Not so much in much of the area you refer to.

OK, I'll bite, why are they not feasible? I have them on my property.