Advice on what to look for when selecting a German Shepherd

[1_click_off]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3uhJfdFuC2I

After watching this, might need to find a trainer to put a little boost in the protection side.

[Bulletdog]

I've been training real protection dogs since the early 90s. Sport dogs too, and obedience, and puppy training, and problem solving, dog aggression, people aggression, etc... I'm the guy that gets called when other trainers and vets tell people to put their dog to sleep because its "incorrigible". I'm a 5 time National Champion in PSA, and had the 5th dog to ever earn a PSA 3 title back when a PSA 3 was near impossible to get. (Its much easier now, or so I'm told...)

I mention these things so you'll understand the "color" of my opinions to be stated here.

Back in the 70s and 80s GSDs were amazing dogs. Well built with super intelligence and willingness. Stupid Americans breeding for all the wrong reason ruined them. 95% of them are dysplastic to some degree and weird temperament issues are the norm now. I wouldn't take one for free and I wouldn't recommend one to anyone anymore. They simply aren't what they used to be. If your heart is set on a GSD, then look into the one from the Czech Republic. "Czech shepards". These tend to have sound bodies and minds, more so than "regular" shepards. The problem is that they are also hard core serious dogs that need a lot of time and bite work put into them. Don't get one if competition bite work isn't going to be your new hobby that you engage in for several hours 3-4 times a week. Not suitable as "pets".

Much the same for a Dutch. Not a pet dog. These are the hardest of hard dogs. Gladiators. Happy to fight all the decoys, the judge, the trial steward, AND the handler to the death to stay on a bite. This is the wrong dog for 99.9% of professional trainers. Totally unsuitable as a pet in a home. Many of the ones I've worked with reached maturity and went right back up the leash and put the person who raised them in the hospital. And that was with lots of help and guidance from a whole club of people that know what they are doing. These dogs are no joke. Here is one problem with the "Dutch Shepard". There are many trainers and breeders who for some odd reason think that dutchies and mals are two different colors of the same breed. They aren't. Not even close. But for years many people have been cross breeding them and now its a big muddled mess. A Mal pup has to be built up and made into a courageous dog. A dutch pup has to be toned down enough to be controllable. Mals retain a good amount of "handler sensitivity", while some dutchies demonstrate little or no handler sensitivity when they are in drive. These are generalities, and exceptions abound, especially when you get into lines that have been mixed.

Golden retrievers: Not kidding here. My worst aggression cases have been Goldens. Neutered goldens. See more and more aggressive labs every year too. Americans in general are bad at breeding dogs. We ruin all the good ones. Golden retrievers are not the family dogs that most people seem to think they are.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like you (OP) want to start a new hobby. Sounds like you want a nice family dog with some protective instincts that won't require 9-12 hours of training a week. No dog is going to bite bad guys without a substantial amount of training and constant upkeep on that training. Some dog breeds, like the dutch, are much more likely to bite you or your family without substantial training, upkeep and correct handling. Don't get a race car if you aren't a race car driver that intends to race. Here are a few breeds that with minimal training usually turn out to be good family dogs, and have some protectiveness to them with out going overboard in a normal household. Standard poodle, Great Dane, bullmastiff, Rhodesian ridgeback, real pit bulls, Australian shepards. Every trainer you talk to will likely have their own list, and differing opinions on all of this. These breeds are my hobby, my passion and my career. I don't know everything, but I've learned a few things along the way. Your questions are welcome. I'm happy to share what I've learned over the years. I'd post pics, but tinypic.com shut down and I don't know how to post them from any other site without having to sign up and make an account.

[1_click_off]

Sounds like you want a nice family dog with some protective instincts that won't require 9-12 hours of training a week. No dog is going to bite bad guys without a substantial amount of training and constant upkeep on that training. Some dog breeds, like the dutch, are much more likely to bite you or your family without substantial training, upkeep and correct handling. Don't get a race car if you aren't a race car driver that intends to race. Here are a few breeds that with minimal training usually turn out to be good family dogs, and have some protectiveness to them with out going overboard in a normal household. Standard poodle, Great Dane, bullmastiff, Rhodesian ridgeback, real pit bulls, Australian shepards.

Thank you for sharing. I appreciate you willing to extend the knowledge.

60hrs is a light week of work, add a couple kids in there and the 9-12 hours to maintain the race car is gone and priority of funds aren’t to hire a pit crew such as yourself so I can just drive.

Of your list of breeds, I think I would pick Australian Shepherd simply because the others seem a bit large for in the house. The Pit may not be, but we all know the stigmata and perceptions of that breed and I am just going to side step that one.

I think Australian Shepherd is the portion of my last mut I enjoyed the most.

Buddy had 2 but they had all kinds of allergies and skin issues.

What are your thoughts on the Sheepoodle?

[Coal Dragger]

The suggestion to look at a bull mastiff is a good one too. They’re very cool dogs, great personalities and quite relaxed in the house and around their people.

[SteyrAUG]

Had a very abused dog show up at the house one day. Would not come to me but looked like she felt she had nowhere else to go. So I started feeding her. She eventually warmed up and it took about a year before I could pet her without a wince/flench. Started acting like I was coming in for a smack and then started telling her she was a good dog and petting her nice. That helped a lot.

The next dog was from a farmer on the roadside. Best dog I ever had. The mom was half husky half wolf, dad was Australian Shepherd. I picked the only one with brown eyes and without the mane. That was the best dog ever. Smart, tough and acted like a 2 year old dog even though he was 14. One day he just started stroking out and had to put him down. No joint issues, teeth were great, he was deaf though. Took us all in total shock he was great up until that day.

This is the first dog I have been seeking out to purchase.

There is one thing you can't buy, knowing you gave those dogs a better life than anyone else was probably capable of doing. Not saying don't buy a dog, but if the rescue option exists (and one of the best dogs I ever had was literally a stray that got caught trying to climb under my fence) I typically go that route.

If the German is a few notches down on activity from the Dutch, I may lean that way. It will be a family dog and not worked hard. I think I will have a lot of chewed up stuff out of boredom if I go Dutch and that’s not fair to it.

I have a Belgian. I've worked with a lot of dog trainers over the years and I know a bit about training dogs, but just being in my 40s and not being able to devote a lot of time to her was hard on her. If I'd have been in my 20s it wouldn't have been as challenging. But I literally would have to take bike rides every day just to run the extra energy out of her. Belgians and Dutch definitely need a job and a defined role or they just go stir crazy.

[SteyrAUG]

I've been training real protection dogs since the early 90s. Sport dogs too, and obedience, and puppy training, and problem solving, dog aggression, people aggression, etc... I'm the guy that gets called when other trainers and vets tell people to put their dog to sleep because its "incorrigible". I'm a 5 time National Champion in PSA, and had the 5th dog to ever earn a PSA 3 title back when a PSA 3 was near impossible to get. (Its much easier now, or so I'm told...)

I mention these things so you'll understand the "color" of my opinions to be stated here.

Back in the 70s and 80s GSDs were amazing dogs. Well built with super intelligence and willingness. Stupid Americans breeding for all the wrong reason ruined them. 95% of them are dysplastic to some degree and weird temperament issues are the norm now. I wouldn't take one for free and I wouldn't recommend one to anyone anymore. They simply aren't what they used to be. If your heart is set on a GSD, then look into the one from the Czech Republic. "Czech shepards". These tend to have sound bodies and minds, more so than "regular" shepards. The problem is that they are also hard core serious dogs that need a lot of time and bite work put into them. Don't get one if competition bite work isn't going to be your new hobby that you engage in for several hours 3-4 times a week. Not suitable as "pets".

Much the same for a Dutch. Not a pet dog. These are the hardest of hard dogs. Gladiators. Happy to fight all the decoys, the judge, the trial steward, AND the handler to the death to stay on a bite. This is the wrong dog for 99.9% of professional trainers. Totally unsuitable as a pet in a home. Many of the ones I've worked with reached maturity and went right back up the leash and put the person who raised them in the hospital. And that was with lots of help and guidance from a whole club of people that know what they are doing. These dogs are no joke. Here is one problem with the "Dutch Shepard". There are many trainers and breeders who for some odd reason think that dutchies and mals are two different colors of the same breed. They aren't. Not even close. But for years many people have been cross breeding them and now its a big muddled mess. A Mal pup has to be built up and made into a courageous dog. A dutch pup has to be toned down enough to be controllable. Mals retain a good amount of "handler sensitivity", while some dutchies demonstrate little or no handler sensitivity when they are in drive. These are generalities, and exceptions abound, especially when you get into lines that have been mixed.

Golden retrievers: Not kidding here. My worst aggression cases have been Goldens. Neutered goldens. See more and more aggressive labs every year too. Americans in general are bad at breeding dogs. We ruin all the good ones. Golden retrievers are not the family dogs that most people seem to think they are.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like you (OP) want to start a new hobby. Sounds like you want a nice family dog with some protective instincts that won't require 9-12 hours of training a week. No dog is going to bite bad guys without a substantial amount of training and constant upkeep on that training. Some dog breeds, like the dutch, are much more likely to bite you or your family without substantial training, upkeep and correct handling. Don't get a race car if you aren't a race car driver that intends to race. Here are a few breeds that with minimal training usually turn out to be good family dogs, and have some protectiveness to them with out going overboard in a normal household. Standard poodle, Great Dane, bullmastiff, Rhodesian ridgeback, real pit bulls, Australian shepards. Every trainer you talk to will likely have their own list, and differing opinions on all of this. These breeds are my hobby, my passion and my career. I don't know everything, but I've learned a few things along the way. Your questions are welcome. I'm happy to share what I've learned over the years. I'd post pics, but tinypic.com shut down and I don't know how to post them from any other site without having to sign up and make an account.

Solid info. You just helped me reconcile a lot of things I've observed but couldn't adequately explain / comprehend.

By the way, imgur is the photo host you want. It's the last of the easy to use, won't load your computer down with junk photo hosts.

[Circle_10]

. Here are a few breeds that with minimal training usually turn out to be good family dogs, and have some protectiveness to them with out going overboard in a normal household. Standard poodle, Great Dane, bullmastiff, Rhodesian ridgeback, real pit bulls, Australian shepards.

People laugh about poodles but I've heard a number of times over the years that standard poodles are pretty damn good dogs.

I personally won't be getting a dog anytime soon because I have two older cats and don't want to turn their senior years upside down by adding a dog to the household. However a type of dog that I've become very interested in of late are lurchers, which as I said is a "type" of dog rather than an actual breed. Basically it's the result of crossing a sighthound like a greyhound or whippet with a working dog like a collie, or a terrier, or a pitbull etc.. the result is a dog with an impressive turn of speed like a sighthound but also the traits from the other parent breed as well such as better nose, better trainability, tougher mentally or physically, or maybe more resilient to harsh weather etc..
Nobody really seems to breed them in the US with any regularity but collie cross lurchers in particular are very popular in the UK.

A cross between two sighthound breeds, such as a greyhound x saluki, is not actually a lurcher and is more correctly called a "longdog"

[Bulletdog]

What are your thoughts on the Sheepoodle?

No experience with a sheep dog/poodle mix, that I know of, but in general mutts usually make great dogs.

[Bulletdog]

I have a Belgian. I've worked with a lot of dog trainers over the years and I know a bit about training dogs, but just being in my 40s and not being able to devote a lot of time to her was hard on her. If I'd have been in my 20s it wouldn't have been as challenging. But I literally would have to take bike rides every day just to run the extra energy out of her. Belgians and Dutch definitely need a job and a defined role or they just go stir crazy.

I have four mals right now. I like to have two up and running all the time. My older female is 11 and ready to retire. My primary is 8 and going very strong right now. Working all the time. He's the one in my avatar. I started two new pups a few months ago. They are littermate brothers and six months old now. I'm raising one and my co-trainers are raising the other, but we all trade off periodically. Dog training is my career and my hobby outside of work, so all I do is work them every day. They come to work with me and go hawking with me too. I don't know how a person would do it if they didn't have a job like mine. My hat is off to you. I've seen the "stir crazy" you mentioned. They either get super fearful and bite out of sheer terror and panic, or they get aggressive and bite for entertainment. They seems to like to hear the hairless apes squeal. Scary dogs in the wrong hands, but they can do more than any other breed on the planet in the right hands. It takes an inordinate amount of time and effort to make them in to good dogs, but when a person puts that time in, the result is pure magic. They become almost telepathic with their person. They learn new things is a fraction of the time it takes "normal" dogs. They can perform physical feats that appear to bend the laws of physics. I've always said: "They make a German shepard seem stupid and a border collie seem slow." You can train them to do things that other breeds are bred to do, better than those other breeds. They can out retrieve a retriever. They can bird dog better than a bird dog. I've used mine to hunt rabbits with hawks, they are better than any traditional rabbit hunting dog. They can man track better than a bloodhound.

Yes. I'm a fan. I don't see myself ever not having one, but I readily admit that they are the wrong dog for most people. I talk people out of them all day long. My current two pups are my eighth and ninth mals. The future looks bright. Very bright.

[Bulletdog]

People laugh about poodles but I've heard a number of times over the years that standard poodles are pretty damn good dogs.

I personally won't be getting a dog anytime soon because I have two older cats and don't want to turn their senior years upside down by adding a dog to the household. However a type of dog that I've become very interested in of late are lurchers, which as I said is a "type" of dog rather than an actual breed. Basically it's the result of crossing a sighthound like a greyhound or whippet with a working dog like a collie, or a terrier, or a pitbull etc.. the result is a dog with an impressive turn of speed like a sighthound but also the traits from the other parent breed as well such as better nose, better trainability, tougher mentally or physically, or maybe more resilient to harsh weather etc..
Nobody really seems to breed them in the US with any regularity but collie cross lurchers in particular are very popular in the UK.

A cross between two sighthound breeds, such as a greyhound x saluki, is not actually a lurcher and is more correctly called a "longdog"

When my wife was my girlfriend a few years back, I made a face when she told me she was bringing her bosses poodle home for the weekend. I wasn't a fan. That dog wasn't trained, but the instinct, insight and intelligence was amazing. I showed up at her apartment and she was in the shower. That poodle would not let me in the door. As an experienced protection dog trainer, I tried every trick I knew to back her down and she wasn't budging. I was about to go put on my bite suit when the gf finished her shower and yelled for the dog to stand down, which she did immediately even though she'd been confronting me and ready to fight to the death one second prior. She was protective, but not dangerous. Suspicious of new people, but accepting once we told her it was okay. Instinctively watchful, but not looking to fight. She was truly amazing, and believe me, I've seen some amazing dogs. To be clear, for anyone reading: We are talking about the standard poodles. The big ones. 50-70 pound size.

They have lurchers here in the states. I've seen a few and heard about many. Primarily used for rabbit hunting. I hunt jack rabbits with hawks and a couple friends use golden eagles. Jack rabbits are one of the most athletic animals on the planet. Any dog than can run them down and actually catch them has my respect. My malinois have chased them many times and as athletic and fast as they are, they get as close to the jacks as the jacks want them to be.