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Thread: Guidance for right load for rifle/shooting better

  1. #1
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    Guidance for right load for rifle/shooting better

    I own two LMT rifles that I hadn't shot much until I moved out west and got BLM access.

    Compared to what I see here and in other places, I am not happy with the performance of myself and my 16" CL MWS.

    I would like some guidance with two things.....

    What can I do to start shooting this rifle better as far as techniques/tips/tricks? I am comfortable shooting iron sighted bolt action rifles of any caliber(and even my M-1 Garand when I used to own it), but perhaps I am missing something when shooting 7.62 semi rifles with scopes....


    Where do I even start in figuring out what kind of 7.62 load works optimally for this rifle? At best, it appears this rifle will do about a minute and a half with FGMM 168. It seems to do awful with most NATO surplus or XM80 except for West German MEN from the 80s (silver jacketed stuff) but even then that's about a minute and a half at best. --Or am I simply concerned too much about group size from a 16" chromed barrel?




    FWIW, my protocol for shooting for groups is to shoot 5 shot groups (never 3 shots) at 100m.


    Another thing I am curious about: to what extent is barrel heat a factor in opening up groups? Seems like no matter which rifle i shoot for groups, the first string is always best.
    Last edited by rojocorsa; 10-13-19 at 12:06.
    http://parrotheadjeff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Shooter-Jack-rkba.gif

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    Probably just a matter of finding what weight bullet it likes. Keep the barrel a little dirty, copper helps to smooth things out. Shooting off a bipod, sandbags, trigger milspec, decent scope? Few more details could help.

    Also check out the precision auto section. Seems like more LMT action over there.
    Last edited by joedirt199; 10-13-19 at 12:28.

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    The same shooting techniques used for the M1 work for the 308 AR.

    There's nothing "wrong" with getting 1.5 MOA from a 308 AR, especially one with a chrome lined barrel.

    If you're able to get ~1.5 MOA with irons, then it's possible that you don't have consistent eye position behind
    the scope and parallax is affecting the group size.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joedirt199 View Post
    Probably just a matter of finding what weight bullet it likes. Keep the barrel a little dirty, copper helps to smooth things out. Shooting off a bipod, sandbags, trigger milspec, decent scope? Few more details could help.

    Also check out the precision auto section. Seems like more LMT action over there.

    Thinking of trying out 175 SMKs when I can.

    The gun is still fairly new, +/- 150 rounds through the pipe and it's got a NF 1-8 ATACR on a Geissele mount.
    http://parrotheadjeff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Shooter-Jack-rkba.gif

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    Quote Originally Posted by rojocorsa View Post

    Where do I even start in figuring out what kind of 7.62 load works optimally for this rifle? At best, it appears this rifle will do about a minute and a half with FGMM 168. It seems to do awful with most NATO surplus or XM80 except for West German MEN from the 80s (silver jacketed stuff) but even then that's about a minute and a half at best. --Or am I simply concerned too much about group size from a 16" chromed barrel?
    I have a Savage MSR 10 that has a 16" nitride 5R heavy fluted barrel. For what it's worth I can not get M80 or similar ammo to group, even half respectably. Im talking 2"+ groups at 50 yards. Shooting 168 and 175 BTHP I can regularly expect 1.25", 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

    I shot a black rifle competition at my local range, and I think you need at least 2.25 MOA ammo to not blame misses on your gear. This is a competition with ipsa cardboard close and steel silhouettes out to 400m. I only bring all this up because I don't think regular M80 would work for this style of shooting, where as some M193 can do it.

    Lastly, Shooting an AR10 style rifle I feel they are a little more sensitive to proper shooting position and follow through than a AR15 is. I absolutely feel I have to bear into the gun on my MSR10 before I can expect it too group well. On the flip side, I feel that shooting a 308 AR has made me better on my AR15's especially in recoil control.
    "Just throw Krylon on it"

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    If you're used to shooting primarily bolt guns it can be a little more difficult to get a large frame gasser to group well. The longer lock time makes them much more sensitive to small mistakes in follow through and trigger control than a bolt action in the same caliber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tx_Aggie View Post
    If you're used to shooting primarily bolt guns it can be a little more difficult to get a large frame gasser to group well. The longer lock time makes them much more sensitive to small mistakes in follow through and trigger control than a bolt action in the same caliber.
    Is it just a matter of getting some reps in, or how can I work on it?

    Does the same apply to shooting an AR-15 with a scope? Im happy to mount the scope and practice with a 5.56 gun if it helps too.


    ETA:

    It has been some time since I seriously paid attention to shooting rifles and I am willing to start from 0 again. I suppose after all this time of shooting old bolt guns I had this assumption about modern .30 semis taking less work to shoot.
    Last edited by rojocorsa; 10-13-19 at 16:52.
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    I saw the pics you posted in the MWS thread and those are two extremely nice rifles! I'm more than a little jealous, espcially since an MWS + ATACR is on my wants list.

    I reread your OP and a lot of guys are fine with 1.5 moa from a 16" gun with an LPVO on it. But it since LMT has a reputation for accurate chrome lined barrels it may be the rifle is capable of better. One way to double check the barrel's capability might be to swap it into your other MWS (with the higher mag optic & longer LOP) to see if that tightens up your groups.

    As far as fundamentals and shooting a gas gun, this video touches on the big differences:


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    Thank you for the compliments. They're the crown jewels of my stash after saving up and working my ass off. The whole thing was carefully planned as I want to know that *I* am the weak link in the system and not the equipment.

    I am actually planning on doing just that--putting the PRS stock, bipod and the 4-16 and seeing what can happen.
    http://parrotheadjeff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Shooter-Jack-rkba.gif

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    Shooting groups at 100yds with a 16" MWS is no doubt an acquired skill. A .308 gas gun is one of the hardest guns to drive correctly I've found. Moreover, I've found if I don't continually practice shooting groups with it, I fall out of the proper technique needed to shrink the groups up. I can always go back to my 5.56 Recce, and SPRs.....not so with my .308 MWS.


    I'd just be patient, and shoot another 100-150rds really concentrating on technique, and then locking that down. Have fun doing it, and try not to place as much pressure on yourself, or the rifle. IF you can afford it, but 3-4 of boxes of Hornady 150gr. SST, and then the FGMM 168gr. SMK loads to use. Those two I can get at or shade under 1MOA @ 100yds with 10rd groups. The 150gr SST loader is a bit less accurate but feels much easier to control in regards to recoil.


    Stay with it, and be patient, I think you'll get the results you want in time.

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