Cartel battle in Mexico

[WillBrink]

That's what happened to organized crime in this country when Prohibition was over, right? Right?.......No, NOT RIGHT. Bad people are bad people, it's really that simple. They need to be killed or incarcerated and I have no qualms about either.

And excellent example: they were created by Prohibition and when that ended, they transferred to (wait for it...) other stuff that had no reasons for being illegal, such as gambling, drugs, and prostitution. Created by the gubment, then supported by the gubments additional laws. See how that works?

Two, legalization at the user level and regs controlling it, then allows resources to be focused on those "bad" people, who deserve what they get. Two pronged approach, cut off their $ and focus on the big fish in the game. Decades of the failed war on drugs shows one can't EVER kill or incarcerated there way out of it, period. Maybe if we had a legit police state we could get close, and anyone squaws about Liberty yet wants to throw it in the toilet, really has so pull head from sand and wake the hell up.

It's really not that complicated and there's no lack of proof of concept it works well. For example:

Legal marijuana may be doing at least one thing that a decades-long drug war couldn't: taking a bite out of Mexican drug cartels' profits.

The latest data from the U.S. Border Patrol shows that last year, marijuana seizures along the southwest border tumbled to their lowest level in at least a decade. Agents snagged roughly 1.5 million pounds of marijuana at the border, down from a peak of nearly 4 million pounds in 2009.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...g-war-couldnt/

[Esq.]

And excellent example: they were created by Prohibition and when that ended, they transferred to (wait for it...) other stuff that had no reasons for being illegal, such as gambling, drugs, and prostitution. Created by the gubment, then supported by the gubments additional laws. See how that works?

Two, legalization at the user level and regs controlling it, then allows resources to be focused on those "bad" people, who deserve what they get. Two pronged approach, cut off their $ and focus on the big fish in the game. Decades of the failed war on drugs shows one can't EVER kill or incarcerated there way out of it, period. Maybe if we had a legit police state we could get close, and anyone squaws about Liberty yet wants to throw it in the toilet, really has so pull head from sand and wake the hell up.

It's really not that complicated and there's no lack of proof of concept it works well. For example:

Legal marijuana may be doing at least one thing that a decades-long drug war couldn't: taking a bite out of Mexican drug cartels' profits.

The latest data from the U.S. Border Patrol shows that last year, marijuana seizures along the southwest border tumbled to their lowest level in at least a decade. Agents snagged roughly 1.5 million pounds of marijuana at the border, down from a peak of nearly 4 million pounds in 2009.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...g-war-couldnt/

You forgot human trafficking, extortion, theft, murder for hire etc.....

I guess if we just let all the illegals in that would cut off that source of Cartel revenue too, right? If we're going to do it right, let's just make EVERYTHING legal and be done with it. No need for cops, courts or jails....Imagine how much we could save....

[jpmuscle]

You forgot human trafficking, extortion, theft etc.....

I guess if we just let all the illegals in that would cut off that source of revenue too right? How far does that line of thinking go? Until we have no country?

All of which facilitate incoming cash flows for the organization.

Trafficking in illegals is just one revenue stream.


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[Esq.]

All of which facilitate incoming cash flows for the organization.

Trafficking in illegals is just one revenue stream.


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Which goes to my overall point. Bad folks don't go away just because you legalize something- they just find something else to do. Instead of dope, it will be child porn etc..... The only real solution is to incarcerate or kill the bad people.

Now, that percentage of the population is probably pretty small- really "bad" people but they should be dealt with in that manner, harshly and in most cases permanently. Most studies that I have seen show that a relatively small population of offenders is responsible for the bulk of crime. Those people should simply be removed from the population. That's the most straightforward way of dealing with the issue.

[jpmuscle]

Which goes to my overall point. Bad folks don't go away just because you legalize something- they just find something else to do. Instead of dope, it will be child porn etc..... The only real solution is to incarcerate or kill the bad people.

Now, that percentage of the population is probably pretty small- really "bad" people but they should be dealt with in that manner, harshly and in most cases permanently. Most studies that I have seen show that a relatively small population of offenders is responsible for the bulk of crime. Those people should simply be removed from the population. That's the most straightforward way of dealing with the issue.

Here’s the reality. In most AOs the majority of major crimes are in one way or another gang affiliated. Of these gangs most are transnational based even if the bulk of their enterprise is inside the US. Of them a significant percentage of the membership are foreign nationals. Immigration being the hot button issue that is facilitates not enough being done to keep these folks out of the country. Obviously keeping them out is only part of the equation but Trumps the only one who’s actually tried to do anything about.


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[WillBrink]

You forgot human trafficking, extortion, theft, murder for hire etc.....

I guess if we just let all the illegals in that would cut off that source of Cartel revenue too, right?

No. Where was that suggested? Trying to move the goal posts each time one fails in their point does not help.

If we're going to do it right, let's just make EVERYTHING legal and be done with it. No need for cops, courts or jails....Imagine how much we could save....

Logical fallacy of zero value to the discussion at hand. I gave examples, you et al give feels based on nadda really and ignoring the data and reality.

[NWPilgrim]

You forgot human trafficking, extortion, theft, murder for hire etc.....

I guess if we just let all the illegals in that would cut off that source of Cartel revenue too, right? If we're going to do it right, let's just make EVERYTHING legal and be done with it. No need for cops, courts or jails....Imagine how much we could save....

It is that lack of ability to distinguish between types of laws that gets us into these failed black holes like War on Drugs. It is not as childish as saying laws against everything or no laws at all. And why fight strenuously to hold onto laws that are hugely costly and have no discernible benefit? Can you honestly say that our War on Drugs keeps drugs out of anyone’s hands that wants it? Education campaigns cost a pittance yet are likely vastly more effective keeping some kids off drugs than enforcement.

Laws that never work and have huge enforcement costs are: against possession of items and personal choices (alcohol, guns, drugs, gambling, prostitution). But if made legal they can be regulated so that they are of known quality, recourse through courts for fraud, and focus enforcement efforts on things like underage prostitutes, rigged gambling machines, etc.

Appropriate laws that do work with much less cost are against destructive behaviors against other people and property: theft, assault, Abuse, trespass, harming someone with vehicle whether drunk or not, etc.

I used to be staunchly in favor of strong drug laws and enforcement. But decades of watching the costs go up, drugs getting stronger, and the entire situation is much worse in 2019 then it was in 1969 forced me to question if enforcement can ever be effective. Inevitably I had to admit that laws prohibiting THINGS generally do not work if a large segment of the population is adamant in obtaining them. Likewise laws against personal activities. Rather laws are best suited to regulate behavior between people so that the behaviors stay within bounds of respecting safety, property, and commerce.

If drugs were made legal then they could be regulated for safe dosages, research can be done, transactions and quality can be contested in courts.

Yes, cartels will fall back on other criminal behavior. But it would be much less revenue without drugs. They get weakened. The billions spent on drug enforcement could be focused on wiping out human trafficking, for instance.

[Esq.]

No. Where was that suggested? Trying to move the goal posts each time one fails in their point does not help.




Logical fallacy of zero value to the discussion at hand. I gave examples, you et al give feels based on nadda really and ignoring the data and reality.

Perhaps I misunderstood. You seemed to indicate that essentially the Mafia etc...Organized crime just dried up and blew away since the end of Prohibition. That's simply not the case. Criminals simply shifted to other means of making a living, it's what they do. The Cartels are a perfect example with human trafficking and facilitating illegal entry into the country.... That's not a problem you can solve with "legalization", not if you want a country. Many Liberaltarians would do exactly that though....

[WillBrink]

It is that lack of ability to distinguish between types of laws that gets us into these failed black holes like War on Drugs. It is not as childish as saying laws against everything or no laws at all. And why fight strenuously to hold onto laws that are hugely costly and have no discernible benefit? Can you honestly say that our War on Drugs keeps drugs out of anyone’s hands that wants it? Education campaigns cost a pittance yet are likely vastly more effective keeping some kids off drugs than enforcement.

Laws that never work and have huge enforcement costs are: against possession of items and personal choices (alcohol, guns, drugs, gambling, prostitution). But if made legal they can be regulated so that they are of known quality, recourse through courts for fraud, and focus enforcement efforts on things like underage prostitutes, rigged gambling machines, etc.

Appropriate laws that do work with much less cost are against destructive behaviors against other people and property: theft, assault, Abuse, trespass, harming someone with vehicle whether drunk or not, etc.

Best synopsis and counter to the bolded I have read yet. Bravo to you sir. Might as well close the thread with that one!

[WillBrink]

Perhaps I misunderstood. You seemed to indicate that essentially the Mafia etc...Organized crime just dried up and blew away since the end of Prohibition.

Not even close. Re read what I wrote carefully.

That's simply not the case. Criminals simply shifted to other means of making a living, it's what they do. The Cartels are a perfect example with human trafficking and facilitating illegal entry into the country.... That's not a problem you can solve with "legalization", not if you want a country. Many Liberaltarians would do exactly that though....

NWPilgrim's additional comments above are as concise as it gets on the topic of where effort/resources/$ are worth focusing on and what's a waste of time and efforts. If what he posted does not make the point here, then I suspect nothing will.