Military Component of Trump Coup Attempt

[pinzgauer]

Well point of fact, Mattis was no longer in uniform for Lord Cheeto, so being more vocal about his position vs POTUS is not inappropriate. He was selected to fill a cabinet position not be a yes man.

Valid point and why I think Trump's comments were kind of beneath him.

[1168]

McRaven was a well-known liberal when he was in uniform, supported both clintons and Obama. A lot of people in the community did not like him.

Lots of people worthy of respect have some liberal tendencies. I would like to see Cannabis decriminalized, personally. The General that replaced McRaven was significantly liberal, and I have a great deal of respect for him, too. Trump was a Democrat at the time McRaven was at the helm of JSOC, and he still doesn't like silencers, doesn’t like them at all.

McRaven managed to get targets approved through Obummer despite Hillary’s protest. W didn’t have the fortitude to approve some of these, despite the “we will make no distinction” rhetoric. UBL was one of these.

[chuckman]

Lots of people worthy of respect have some liberal tendencies. I would like to see Cannabis decriminalized, personally. The General that replaced McRaven was significantly liberal, and I have a great deal of respect for him, too. Trump was a Democrat at the time McRaven was at the helm of JSOC, and he still doesn't like silencers, doesn’t like them at all.

McRaven managed to get targets approved through Obummer despite Hillary’s protest. W didn’t have the fortitude to approve some of these, despite the “we will make no distinction” rhetoric. UBL was one of these.

You can be a Democrat and not be a liberal shill. McRaven chose to take sides when he was still in uniform which is no bueno.

McRaven had nothing to do with choosing targets; they were chosen for him. I will give him props for OBL and green-lighting an OTB op, though.

Still, I wouldn't piss on him if was on fire. More than one SEAL officer has his footprints on his back as he climbed the ladder.

Mattis on the other hand, I would follow him to hell.

[NWPilgrim]

Rich americans get all the socialism they want. Farmers, bankers, manufacturers, sports team owners, tech companies, defense contractors. Bailouts, contracts, subsidies, tax cuts, price supports. They just don't want the rest of us to have any socialism.

Marx for them, Adam Smith for us.

Right so let’s not get rid of the subsidies and monopolies of the rich but instead spread that socialist crap down into every fiber of our country. Excellent idea!

Why do socialists only think in terms or making things worse for everyone rather than better for everyone?

[NWPilgrim]

Well point of fact, Mattis was no longer in uniform for Lord Cheeto, so being more vocal about his position vs POTUS is not inappropriate. He was selected to fill a cabinet position not be a yes man.

And when a former military man steps into the political arena he should be accountable to his political record and statements regardless of his military performance. And just as open to criticism as any other politician.

Politically Mattis has no plan for final victory in the ME or Syria specifically. I think we have a generation of general officers who have been indoctrinated into the idea of world policing and nation building and asking political permission from neighboring countries harboring our enemies. They seem to think minimal engagement, highly restrictive ROE, no go zones and deployed forever is the norm.

The criticism I have of his ilk are they are quick to criticize Trump for pulling out yet had no plan for victory. Because ISIS was NOT the primary reason we were involved in Syria. We supported rebel groups to overthrow Assad. Some of these took that support and ran amok with it creating ISIS. So then we get caught up in suppressing them who are trying to unseat Assad, while we are still trying to unseat Assad too.

Asa military man he must not have pushed back much on that genius plan. As a political man he has come up with zero better foreign policy. At least Trump is saying we have no clear business here so we are backing out but will protect our interest if threatened.

[Coal Dragger]

Blaming officers for a lack of guidance from various POTUS is not really fair. The military doesn’t decide what the mission or mission goals are, nor the strategic definition of what victory or success parameters are.

Without those your criticism is moot.

[Firefly]

Oof.

I'm not going to argue. This is Barnes vs Elias BS and the moral of that story was that neither were handling things well.

[NWPilgrim]

Blaming officers for a lack of guidance from various POTUS is not really fair. The military doesn’t decide what the mission or mission goals are, nor the strategic definition of what victory or success parameters are.

Without those your criticism is moot.

No, my criticism is primarily with them as politicians. They have no victory plan yet criticize Trump for pulling out. I never heard them when in the military proposing any plan for final victory either. It is a general’s responsibility to say: We will never succeed in suppressing the Taliban as long as we support Pakistan (who created and support the Taliban) and refuse to hunt them down in Pakistan. When they finally did 15 years later OBL was pretty much irrelevant and had obviously been sheltering in Pakistan for years under the protective noses of the army.

But I think the generals gave up. None were willing to fall on their sword over principle (soldiers lives were at stake) versus a cushy retirement.

Then they become politicians and free of being muzzled still have no victory plan. But quick to criticize nonetheless.

[Korgs130]

I have a lot of respect for Adm McRaven’s service, but here is something to consider. When a commissioned officer retires, they retire their rank, not their commission.

Retired military officers are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice under Article 2 of the UCMJ, which extends the jurisdiction of military law to,”retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.”

USMJ Art 88: “Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may.”

So the UCMJ still applies to Adm McRaven and what he says.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I have a lot of respect for Adm McRaven’s service, but here is something to consider. When a commissioned officer retires, they retire their rank, not their commission.

Retired military officers are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice under Article 2 of the UCMJ, which extends the jurisdiction of military law to,”retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.”

USMJ Art 88: “Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may.”

So the UCMJ still applies to Adm McRaven and what he says.

I thought I had heard this before, about someone that went after Obama and had some action taken against him. We talked about it here, but I don't remember the context.

You all realize that if Trump hadn't put out the transcript where we would be? All we would have is the Whistleblower, secret hearings where only damaging info is leaked and amplified and low and behold some associates of Rudy's would be arrested about Ukraine.... Do you really think that is all timed out by coincidence? McRaven and the others are just noise. Frankly, the FBI, outside of corrupted DC leadership, is Trump's only hope, outside of the military going kinetic against the rouge TLA guys.

I find it so interesting that the left screams about how bad and out of the standard practices Trump is- and that their answer is ex-officio and ex-legal maneuvers to try to get rid of him. Who is the threat here?