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Thread: REVIEW - Magpul PMag 35 rd for CZ Scorpion Evo 3

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    REVIEW - Magpul PMag 35 rd for CZ Scorpion Evo 3

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    EDIT AS OF 10-29-2019. WHILE I AM LEAVING THE ORIGINAL REVIEW UP BELOW, THERE HAVE BEEN MANY DEVELOPMENTS SINCE THE INITIAL POST, WITH MAGPUL'S INPUT IN THIS THREAD. FOR SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENTS REGARDING THE CONCERNS NOTED BELOW, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD THROUGH AT LEAST PAGE 5


    Bottom Line

    -- I own 2 SBR'ed Scorpion Evo (former) pistols. Just received 16 x Scorpion PMags from Brownell's today.
    -- All 16 catastrophically fail to seat properly in Scorpion #1. All 16 can be seated, but with very dubious reliability, in Scorpion #2.
    -- Both weapons work flawlessly with 4 x OEM CZ 20 rd mags and 20 x OEM CZ 30 rd mags.

    Obviously I'll be returning all of the PMags.


    Details

    Both Scorpion Evo Pistols were purchased new in 2017 and SBR'ed with all original CZ parts, with the following exceptions:
    1) CZ Custom Trigger Pack and Disconnector jobs - done by CZ Custom (both pretty mandatory for 922r compliance). This changes the trigger, sear, hammer, trigger spring, and disconnector.
    2) Magpul magazine release (it is a massive upgrade and I highly recommend)
    3) Magpul grip (ok upgrade, personal preference on this)

    Both Scorpions have been tested with 4 x 20rd CZ factory mags and 20 x 30rd CZ factory mags. All are OEM, and the version where CZ makes the floorplates and the followers in the U.S. for 922r compliance.
    -- The mags were manufactured in 2016 / 2017, AFTER CZ increased the thickness of the feed lips to (apparently) solve the cracking problem of 2015 and earlier mags
    -- Training ammo is Speer Lawman 124gr, and home defense (if I ever decided to change from an AR to the Scorpion - which I doubt) is Speer GDHP 147 gr
    -- Zero malfunctions in ~1600 total rounds fired (~800 through each Scorpion) with the factory mags.


    Magpul PMag Problems

    All of this was done using only EMPTY mags. I did not perform any tests using a loaded mag. I also haven't taken them to the range, nor will I, because...

    Scorpion #1
    -- The magazines (all 16 of them) will NOT seat on a closed bolt when empty. I can put the magazine floorplate on the floor, and put all of my body weight on the gun pushing down on the mag, and it's impossible.
    -- The magazines WILL stay in place in the magwell if you try (and fail) to insert them on a closed bolt and then you just let go of them, even though they're not fully seated / locked. They will continue to stay in place and even if you then pull and lock the bolt back. So I didn't realize anything was wrong at first. Obviously the mag would probably fall out after a round or 2 if you were shooting.
    -- If the bolt is locked back first, the magazine can easily be fully inserted and will lock in place with the bolt open.
    -- If the bolt is released, and the charging handle is manually eased forward, the bolt will get caught and stop when it reaches the top of the mag. It can then be pushed forward and fully closed with moderate force on the charging handle after that, but you can feel a decent amount of friction as it scrapes across the top of the mag.
    -- If the bolt is released, via depressing the bolt catch, then the bolt will close fully on its own due to its momentum before it reaches the mag (there is maybe 1/4" of travel before), but you can feel the bolt drag across the top of the mag, like it wants to fail, but barely succeeds in getting across the mag and closing.

    Scorpion #2
    -- The magazines (all 16 of them) WILL seat on a closed bolt when empty. And while you can do this with one hand, it takes more force than any other gun I've ever used (and I'm pretty used to fully loaded 30rd AR-15 PMags being a bit difficult to seat on a closed bolt).
    -- If the bolt is released, and the charging handle is manually eased forward, the bolt will fully close and NOT stop when it reaches the mag, though you can feel it drag across the top of the mag. If you just hit the bolt release, then the bolt also will fully close - again the drag across the mag is noticeable.

    I didn't load the mags, because there is no point if they're malfunctioning empty.

    I'm disappointed with Magpul - this really strikes me as they didn't try very hard in their development process. I was pretty stoked about using these mags when I ordered them 6 months ago. 2 of 2 Scorpions having the same problem to different degrees - with one being catastrophic - is definitely not a fluke, with 24 factory mags that all work perfectly. I have made no modifications that affect the height / distance of the lower receiver / magwell relative to the upper receiver. Magpul's mags are obviously taller than OEM mags above the mag catch indentation.

    Other than the mag release and the handle being installed by me (it's really simple install those), all 922r compliant internal parts were installed by the professionals at CZ Custom (who partner directly with the engineers at CZ in their products). And I can't imagine how those internals would have anything to do with this anyway.
    Last edited by Naphtali; 10-29-19 at 23:02.

  2. #2
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    What is "catastrophically fail to seat"?

    Same as fail to seat?

    Butt hurt & drama queening isn't required to say their $hit doesn't work. Makes you look too emotionally invested.

    Thanks for the review, I'll hold off for now on buying these.
    - Rhino

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    Quote Originally Posted by RHINOWSO View Post
    What is "catastrophically fail to seat"?

    Same as fail to seat?

    Butt hurt & drama queening isn't required to say their $hit doesn't work. Makes you look too emotionally invested.

    Thanks for the review, I'll hold off for now on buying these.
    Do you ever wonder why DocGKR and others left this forum for pistol-forum.com years ago? The answer is in the mirror if you go look in one now.

    "Catastrophically" vs just "fail" is due to:
    1) the fact that it appears to be fully seated when it's not (it even wants to stay in place when you try pull it out and you're not pulling hard), so it fools you = much worse than an obvious failure.
    2) It also reflects the fact that, even when the bolt is open and the mag is fully inserted, it then prevents the bolt from cycling properly

    So it's far worse than just "I can't get the mag to seat, and that problem is immediately obvious"
    Last edited by Naphtali; 10-21-19 at 22:24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    Do you ever wonder why DocGKR and others left this forum for pistol-forum.com years ago? The answer is in the mirror if you go look in one now.

    "Catastrophically" vs just "fail" is due to:
    1) the fact that it appears to be fully seated when it's not (it even wants to stay in place when you try pull it out and you're not pulling hard), so it fools you = much worse than an obvious failure.
    2) It also reflects the fact that, even when the bolt is open and the mag is fully inserted, it then prevents the bolt from cycling properly

    So it's far worse than just "I can't get the mag to seat, and that problem is immediately obvious"
    Wait so Doc left this forum because someone thinks your wording is a little over dramatic? You just proved his point.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  5. #5
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    Has Magpul been contacted about this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    Has Magpul been contacted about this?
    I received the mags after business hours yesterday and will be contacting them today or tomorrow to discuss. Will post their response when I have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Wait so Doc left this forum because someone thinks your wording is a little over dramatic? You just proved his point.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Left because their highly informative posts were often met with personal / political criticisms that had little or no informative value. People want to inform / help / get responses from adults, not 8th graders, or adults who function mentally at an 8th grade level. The "I laugh at you" response rate here is off the charts compared to pistol-forum. It's not worth the trouble to try (and fail) to have an adult discussion here, when you can reliably have an adult discussion somewhere else.

    I actually was not going to post here again after another recent set of posts went this same way, but I felt this info was important enough info to post multiple places. I was actually advised by others to just ignore this forum and post elsewhere only, but I disregarded that advice out of a sense of purpose in disseminating this information. My making a one-time exception to post this here only reinforced the fact that their advice was correct.

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    I usually order new Magpul mags right away but I have been gun shy after having so many 30rd OEM EVO3 mags crack feed lips when left loaded. I have even had post 2017 OEM mags show cracks although not break off yet. My 20s have been fine, I assume due to less spring pressure. As much as I like my EVOs the can't-leave-mags-loaded issue guarantees it stays in the "range toy" zone.

    So after all that I appreciate the detailed Magpul report! I would have been pretty sad to get mags that did not work...

    As much as I am trying not to like them, I have a few PSA AK/EVO mags that are working out well after several months. Although they did need some sanding to drop free.

    Dennis.

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    Again, great info but you come across butthurt and childish.
    - Rhino

  10. #10
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    Iíve been happy with my Manticore mags, they run on every Scorpion Iíve used and ran flawless on a posty.

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