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Thread: Change my mind: a hybrid comp is the best general purpose muzzle device

  1. #91
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    Why the 'do you want to leave this page' double taps all of a sudden?
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    Every Communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party Mao Zedong, 6 November, 1938 - speech to the Communist Patry of China's sixth Central Committee

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by omegajb View Post
    I'm pretty sure this article has made the rounds here but worth a post.

    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/55...vice-shootout/



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    At least with this type of experiment, even though every conceivable variable probably hasn't been taken into account, there is a good faith attempt to remove the human element. And there seems to be a very real difference in recoil mitigation between the devices and no device at all. Is it a huge difference, no. Is there a difference...seems so. Will it help your shooting? That's pretty subjective. Who am I to tell someone it's not really helping them. All I can say is what I experience, you may or may not have a similar experience.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    It would literally be impossible to qualify this type of experiment on paper. Why? Because even if the equipment doesn't change at all, people change. No one shoots the same string from one string to the next exactly the same. Your reflexes could be off a tiny bit, your concentration may have changed, your body movements won't be exactly the same. Whatever differences you encounter in times could and would be chocked up to any number variables I haven't even mentioned or the person trying the experiment isn't even aware of.

    Then why are open guns better?

    No, I can take my comp fun and flash hider gun and shoot the same drills for hit factor and it’s more or less the same. Do it at the same time back to back.

    If it can’t be quantified, then it’s fantasy.


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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsllc View Post
    Then why are open guns better?

    No, I can take my comp fun and flash hider gun and shoot the same drills for hit factor and it’s more or less the same. Do it at the same time back to back.

    If it can’t be quantified, then it’s fantasy.


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    Is logic quantifiable by physical evidences? Is it a fantasy? There are all kinds of things that are not quantifiable on a timer orby experiment that are real.

    Simply put, I don't mean to insult you at all, you may not be good enough to wring out the best in particular gun. And "more or less" isn't exactly an exact measurement is it? All I'm saying is that if comps don't help you in any subjective way, I understand really...and I say don't use them. But there are thousands of 3gunners out there that would say your wrong in their usefulness. It's like that with everything gun related, or cars or fill in the blank.
    Last edited by TomMcC; 11-03-19 at 00:04.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    Is logic quantifiable by physical evidences? Is it a fantasy? There are all kinds of things that are not quantifiable on a timer orby experiment that are real.

    Simply put, I don't mean to insult you at all, you may not be good enough to wring out the best in particular gun. And "more or less" isn't exactly an exact measurement is it? All I'm saying is that if comps don't help you in any subjective way, I understand really...and I say don't use them. But there are thousands of 3gunners out there that would say your wrong in their usefulness. It's like that with everything gun related, or cars or fill in the blank.
    As I said, it’s on the 0.05s range. If that is worth it to you, then go for it.

    What advantage have you quantified?


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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsllc View Post
    As I said, it’s on the 0.05s range. If that is worth it to you, then go for it.

    What advantage have you quantified?


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    I would take a .05 sec improvement in splits...I'd take any improvement in anything. An improvement is an improvement. Are you sure that .05 is the result of a comp/no comp situation? Could be something else?

    I don't believe that any series of experiments could prove much of anything. Too many variables that aren't controllable or missed. All I can tell you is that my 3gun rifle is sightlier easy to shoot than my non-3gun rifles in a game situation, that is my experience.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    Is logic quantifiable by physical evidences? Is it a fantasy? There are all kinds of things that are not quantifiable on a timer orby experiment that are real.

    Simply put, I don't mean to insult you at all, you may not be good enough to wring out the best in particular gun. And "more or less" isn't exactly an exact measurement is it? All I'm saying is that if comps don't help you in any subjective way, I understand really...and I say don't use them. But there are thousands of 3gunners out there that would say your wrong in their usefulness. It's like that with everything gun related, or cars or fill in the blank.
    None of the disadvantages of a comp are applicable in a game setting.
    Probably not very much applicable in an offensive situation either, but thats drifting out if my lane...

    I think the premise of comps helping splits is misguided- they make it easier to call shots and control recoil, possibly improving accuracy with the same splits.

    It may improve splits at a given distance, but wherever you are shooting full speed- a comp will not speed that up, it will only (potentially) tighten the groups.

    ... and putting a number on it is useless without distance. Improving by .05s on a target that normally takes 3 second splits is much different than improving by .05s on a target you normally get .2s splits on.


    Fwiw- I use fh because of what I do with my rifles.
    I have a comp on a short silencer host for baffle protection.

    Edit- as for quantifying, do a drill 5 with fh, 5 times with a comp, you will have variation and average times. You can compare them and draw conclusions, based on the data. Its basic statistical analysis and allows you to quantify stuff.

    If you post times, I can do some analysis and walk you through it and how to read the data.
    I could do bare comp or bare fh vs silencer. My comp/fh are on different barrel lengths so it would not be a good comparison.
    Last edited by MegademiC; 11-03-19 at 12:09.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post


    Because when it comes to AR's, I was kind of thinking 'you're a complete bitch' if you complain about recoil.....
    Col. Cooper would approve.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    I would take a .05 sec improvement in splits...I'd take any improvement in anything. An improvement is an improvement. Are you sure that .05 is the result of a comp/no comp situation? Could be something else?

    I don't believe that any series of experiments could prove much of anything. Too many variables that aren't controllable or missed. All I can tell you is that my 3gun rifle is sightlier easy to shoot than my non-3gun rifles in a game situation, that is my experience.
    How can you experiment with it? Umm same gun, shoot with the flash hider then with the comp. I don’t know why this is so hard for you to grasp.

    The real question isn’t is it easier to shoot. The real question is is there a significant enough of an advantage to be worth the disadvantages? Is it the right tool for the job?

    Do you conceal carry your pork pistol? An open pistol is significantly more an ad advantage to a production pistol than an open AR is to a standard AR.


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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegademiC View Post
    None of the disadvantages of a comp are applicable in a game setting.
    Probably not very much applicable in an offensive situation either, but thats drifting out if my lane...

    I think the premise of comps helping splits is misguided- they make it easier to call shots and control recoil, possibly improving accuracy with the same splits.

    It may improve splits at a given distance, but wherever you are shooting full speed- a comp will not speed that up, it will only (potentially) tighten the groups.

    ... and putting a number on it is useless without distance. Improving by .05s on a target that normally takes 3 second splits is much different than improving by .05s on a target you normally get .2s splits on.


    Fwiw- I use fh because of what I do with my rifles.
    I have a comp on a short silencer host for baffle protection.

    Edit- as for quantifying, do a drill 5 with fh, 5 times with a comp, you will have variation and average times. You can compare them and draw conclusions, based on the data. Its basic statistical analysis and allows you to quantify stuff.

    If you post times, I can do some analysis and walk you through it and how to read the data.
    I could do bare comp or bare fh vs silencer. My comp/fh are on different barrel lengths so it would not be a good comparison.
    Good post. One contention, and maybe it’s me. But I call my shot as the dot lifts. A comp won’t make that easier for me. If anything or would make it less obvious. Is there technique I’m unaware of that a comp can aide my shot calling?


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