Bolt Life?

[alx01]

Buy an SR-15 and never worry about bolt life again.

Great idea! Because what can be better than switching to something which hasn't been tested, field trialed, or used by any military. Let alone finding spare parts like proprietary bolts and firing pins.

Not saying KAC is bad - it's probably better than run-of-the-mill rack grade AR. But there are no reliable documented trials. At least with common AR, AK, SCAR, HK416, even Galil/FN FAL you know what you're getting and what issues are on a large scale and the life expectancy of components. With hip AR-variant rifles like KAC, piston LMT, LWRC, etc. there is very little, if any evidence or long term use and data to support the marketing hype that they are any functionally better or more durable than a cheapest mil Colt AR. For every KAC owner who says his/her SR-15 run 20k rounds without cleaning or stoppages you can find at least 10 BCM/Colt owners who can confirm the same.

Using such rifles is fine for a personal novelty use even for police/swat teams which see little action, but not really a good idea (at least right now with little data) to use them for a large scale military fielding. I also think that most militaries in the world would have issues with single source proprietary components (especially maintenance items) in the supply chain. How do you think the foreign military would feel if KAC all the sudden says you pay us $2k for a proprietary replacement bolt or we can't ship your replacement firing pin because of ITAR or export license delay?

[Wake27]

Great idea! Because what can be better than switching to something which hasn't been tested, field trialed, or used by any military. Let alone finding spare parts like proprietary bolts and firing pins.

Not saying KAC is bad - it's probably better than run-of-the-mill rack grade AR. But there are no reliable documented trials. At least with common AR, AK, SCAR, HK416, even Galil/FN FAL you know what you're getting and what issues are on a large scale and the life expectancy of components. With hip AR-variant rifles like KAC, piston LMT, LWRC, etc. there is very little, if any evidence or long term use and data to support the marketing hype that they are any functionally better or more durable than a cheapest mil Colt AR. For every KAC owner who says his/her SR-15 run 20k rounds without cleaning or stoppages you can find at least 10 BCM/Colt owners who can confirm the same.

Using such rifles is fine for a personal novelty use even for police/swat teams which see little action, but not really a good idea (at least right now with little data) to use them for a large scale military fielding. I also think that most militaries in the world would have issues with single source proprietary components (especially maintenance items) in the supply chain. How do you think the foreign military would feel if KAC all the sudden says you pay us $2k for a proprietary replacement bolt or we can't ship your replacement firing pin because of ITAR or export license delay?

Who gives a ****? I don’t think any of us are buying rifles for the whole military.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alx01]

My point was not buying for the whole mil. My point was - with a common (I should say standard) platform on average you know what you're getting into as far as maintenance and part life. With a non-standard items there is only a theory behind marketing hype for an engineering change. We have seen this many, many times in AR world. Things like enhanced BCG coatings, enhanced/re-designed bcgs, special rifling, various "strengthened" uppers/lowers, lightweight this and that, fancy cut rails, adjustable gas blocks, extended paddles on controls, the list goes on. Almost all of them universally make a final rifle worse from the functionality or reliability perspective, or in best case scenario not any better at the cost of hundreds of dollars.

Therefore, I'm very skeptical when fanboys rush in with broad statements "buy this XXX and be done" without any reliable proof vs a standard platform for which we have at least some hard info.

[Uni-Vibe]

Great idea! Because what can be better than switching to something which hasn't been tested, field trialed, or used by any military. Let alone finding spare parts like proprietary bolts and firing pins.

Not saying KAC is bad - it's probably better than run-of-the-mill rack grade AR. But there are no reliable documented trials. At least with common AR, AK, SCAR, HK416, even Galil/FN FAL you know what you're getting and what issues are on a large scale and the life expectancy of components. With hip AR-variant rifles like KAC, piston LMT, LWRC, etc. there is very little, if any evidence or long term use and data to support the marketing hype that they are any functionally better or more durable than a cheapest mil Colt AR. For every KAC owner who says his/her SR-15 run 20k rounds without cleaning or stoppages you can find at least 10 BCM/Colt owners who can confirm the same.

Using such rifles is fine for a personal novelty use even for police/swat teams which see little action, but not really a good idea (at least right now with little data) to use them for a large scale military fielding. I also think that most militaries in the world would have issues with single source proprietary components (especially maintenance items) in the supply chain. How do you think the foreign military would feel if KAC all the sudden says you pay us $2k for a proprietary replacement bolt or we can't ship your replacement firing pin because of ITAR or export license delay?

Splash! A bucket of cold water in the face of the ardent!

This needed to be said. "Just buy a 6920 / BCM M4" comes into sharper focus here. We know those rifles are likely to work, right out of the box, and shoot tens of thousands of rounds. We don't know that about the un-Stoner modifications, the beyond-Tier-One proprietary stuff, and the like; they might be ultra-awesome, but are they any tougher than that $900 Colt or BCM? Prove it?

Reminds me when piston conversions were all the rage. "It poops where it eats . . . It's been a jam a matic since 1967 . . . . turn it into an AK by adding a piston." Trouble was, the gun wasn't designed to run on a piston. It was designed by Stoner and Sullivan to work as designed, and if you don't mess with it, it does. When you added the piston, Stoner and Sullivan went out the window and you were on your own.

And all these exotic oils for the AR. Weird edible stuff made of vegetable oil. What will it do that CLP won't do better? Resist heat? Suspend carbon particles? Leave some vegetable oil exposed to the air in your kitchen; it'll deteriorate. So what happens when you put it on your gun? Who has tested these exotic concoctions under battle conditions?

alx01 is right.

[1168]

Splash! A bucket of cold water in the face of the ardent!

This needed to be said. "Just buy a 6920 / BCM M4" comes into sharper focus here. We know those rifles are likely to work, right out of the box, and shoot tens of thousands of rounds. We don't know that about the un-Stoner modifications, the beyond-Tier-One proprietary stuff, and the like; they might be ultra-awesome, but are they any tougher than that $900 Colt or BCM? Prove it?

Reminds me when piston conversions were all the rage. "It poops where it eats . . . It's been a jam a matic since 1967 . . . . turn it into an AK by adding a piston." Trouble was, the gun wasn't designed to run on a piston. It was designed by Stoner and Sullivan to work as designed, and if you don't mess with it, it does. When you added the piston, Stoner and Sullivan went out the window and you were on your own.

And all these exotic oils for the AR. Weird edible stuff made of vegetable oil. What will it do that CLP won't do better? Resist heat? Suspend carbon particles? Leave some vegetable oil exposed to the air in your kitchen; it'll deteriorate. So what happens when you put it on your gun? Who has tested these exotic concoctions under battle conditions?

alx01 is right.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, backpedal. You can’t possibly be discussing the KAC Stoner Rifle 15 when you talk about “un-Stoner modifications” to a bolt.

[6933]

Great idea! Because what can be better than switching to something which hasn't been tested, field trialed, or used by any military. Let alone finding spare parts like proprietary bolts and firing pins.

Not saying KAC is bad - it's probably better than run-of-the-mill rack grade AR. But there are no reliable documented trials. At least with common AR, AK, SCAR, HK416, even Galil/FN FAL you know what you're getting and what issues are on a large scale and the life expectancy of components. With hip AR-variant rifles like KAC, piston LMT, LWRC, etc. there is very little, if any evidence or long term use and data to support the marketing hype that they are any functionally better or more durable than a cheapest mil Colt AR. For every KAC owner who says his/her SR-15 run 20k rounds without cleaning or stoppages you can find at least 10 BCM/Colt owners who can confirm the same.

Using such rifles is fine for a personal novelty use even for police/swat teams which see little action, but not really a good idea (at least right now with little data) to use them for a large scale military fielding. I also think that most militaries in the world would have issues with single source proprietary components (especially maintenance items) in the supply chain. How do you think the foreign military would feel if KAC all the sudden says you pay us $2k for a proprietary replacement bolt or we can't ship your replacement firing pin because of ITAR or export license delay?

I feel dumber for having read this.

[JSantoro]

Between both accusations of autism AND fanboys, some of you need to stop goddamned posting, since you're only doing it as a result of posting addictions, vice a willingness to convey data. You know who you are, so shut up shutting up.

[JediGuy]

You can’t possibly be discussing the KAC Stoner Rifle 15 when you talk about “un-Stoner modifications” to a bolt.

First thing that came to my mind...

[Budget]

I feel dumber for having read this.

I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

SR-15 is straight baller. Even with a brace it is smoother than any other SBR/pistol I've used. Wish I was a billionaire so I could gift them to all of M4C.

Back on topic. I am a lot less concerned about bolt wear and keeping a huge stockpile of spares, they seem to turn into guns anyways. This thread took a turn toward pool guns, which I dislike generally(pool guns), but it seems like keeping round counts has some legitimacy as well. I keep a rough round count on my blasters and know parts maintenance on Glock and kinda sorta on ARs. Hope we can get pics of what is "in spec" vs "out" is but I have no idea what that looks looks like. Anyone out there have a brand new bolt and one they know hits that 5k mark? 10k? Etc...

Just trying to push this forward.

[opngrnd]

I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

SR-15 is straight baller. Even with a brace it is smoother than any other SBR/pistol I've used. Wish I was a billionaire so I could gift them to all of M4C.

Back on topic. I am a lot less concerned about bolt wear and keeping a huge stockpile of spares, they seem to turn into guns anyways. This thread took a turn toward pool guns, which I dislike generally(pool guns), but it seems like keeping round counts has some legitimacy as well. I keep a rough round count on my blasters and know parts maintenance on Glock and kinda sorta on ARs. Hope we can get pics of what is "in spec" vs "out" is but I have no idea what that looks looks like. Anyone out there have a brand new bolt and one they know hits that 5k mark? 10k? Etc...

Just trying to push this forward.

I have one I just started shooting and one at 4k. What's your idea?