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Thread: Issue with Witt Machine's Service on Integrally SUppressed 223 and 300 Blackout Upper

  1. #1
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    Angry Issue with Witt Machine's Service on Integrally SUppressed 223 and 300 Blackout Upper

    Here is an email I just sent to Witt Machine in regards to their service on their .223 and 300 Blackout Integrally Suppressed Uppers. I think the email will speak for itself. FYI for those of you who are looking for ISR's. I will follow up in this thread if or when I receive any satisfaction from them or have to take action legally or get ATF involved.

    Witt Machine

    RE: Status of my Integrally Suppressed 223 and 300 BLK Uppers

    Attn: Ken Witt

    Ken,

    I originally purchased 2 .223 Integrally Suppressed Uppers and 3 300 BLK Integrally Suppressed Uppers approximately 3 years ago. The design was primitive and you agreed to take them back and update them to your latest design.

    The original two that I sent in took over 6 months to be returned to me, and required numerous calls. I spoke with Rob, who on each call told me that the uppers would ship in, "two weeks" but they never did. After I spoke to you, I was quite pleased to receive the uppers within a week and a half.

    I spoke to you about sending the other three uppers in for rework, and you told me that I should expect to have them returned to me within a month. I sent the last uppers in on April 3, 2019 and one of the reworked 223 uppers. FEDEX confirms receipt by Witt Machine.The one reworked 223 upper and barrel was damaged during the test fire due to what is believed to be a 300 BLK bullet having inadvertently having been sold in a case of 223 ammunition and loaded into the one magazine fired through the upper.

    Starting 2 months after Witt received the uppers, I have made over 30 calls to Rob in an attempt to determine when I will receive the uppers. Early on, Rob answered my calls, and again told me on each occasion that I should receive my reworked uppers in, "two weeks."

    When June came and I still had not received the uppers, I spoke to Rob again, and he again told me that I should expect my uppers in two weeks, and told me that due to the delay I would not be charged for the repair to the damaged 223 upper.

    I have continued calling Rob both at Witt Machine's number and on his cell phone, and my calls have gone unanswered and unreturned as of the past month. I have also called Witt Machine and asked for you. In each case, I have been told that you are out of the office. I have left more than 5 messages for you, which have all gone unreturned.

    It has been more than seven (7) months since I sent my uppers to you for rework. Witt Machine has been sitting on items of mine with a value of more than $3,000.00.

    Would you please contact me via email within the next 5 days to inform me of what steps you will take to complete the work on my uppers in compliance with the Satisfaction Guaranteed policy that was in place at the time of my order?

    Thank you.

  2. #2
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    Who?


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  3. #3
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    You bought 10,000$ worth of uppers, from a no name company, that as you identified having a 'primitive design'?

  4. #4
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    I bought $5,500.00 worth of uppers that I had shot demos of that were nice and quiet, and the company ended up delivering me integrated uppers that had holes drilled through the barrels at 9 and 3 o'clock and some sort of steel wool packing around the barrel that were...loud.

    The company's uppers had excellent reviews as well at that time.

    They agreed to upgrade them to a monocore baffle. I should have just asked for my money back.

    In my defense, I was heavily doped up on painkillers for an extended period and far from in my right mind recovering from multiple major spine surgeries during this time. A sober CrashAxe would handle things differently. But today is today and I don't have a time machine.
    Last edited by CrashAxe; 11-06-19 at 14:50.

  5. #5
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    Wow. For that price you could have almost had KAC mod 2 uppers in 5.56 and 300 with corresponding cans. Sorry you’re in this predicament. Is there any way you can get a refund at this point?
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

  6. #6
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    The reworked uppers I got are nice and quiet. I'm happy with the new one.

    If I don't get a response from Witt in 5 days, I'll probably pursue legal action against them to get my money back. Witt has since changed their policy, but they had a Satisfaction Guaranteed or your money back policy at the time I purchased the uppers and I have that documented.

    When Witt was unresponsive before, I contacted BATFE in Colorado and the SAC in the office closest to Witt told me that they would go and seize the uppers and return them to me if I wanted them to do so. I only wanted the uppers back if they had been redone, however, so I held off on following through with involving the Batmen. I'm in the same situation now. I only want those uppers back if they have been reworked into decent integral suppressors. If they are still POS's, the only thing they are good for is for use as boat anchors.

    I noticed that Witt now has horrible reviews with the Better Business Bureau, with the complaints pretty much all stating that they either got the repeated, "in two weeks" response from Rob or nothing but radio silence.

    Others might tolerate getting ripped off meekly, but I make a really lousy victim. I'll give someone the chance to make things right, but once it is clear that they are trying to screw me, I won't go away quietly. I consider hunting down people who have ripped me off and getting my figurative pound of flesh a fun sport, and figure that if they don't spend the money paying me back, I'll at least make them pay as much money as they got from me in legal bills and other costs. In one of the various industries I do business in, I and the business I own is known as the one business that you don't try to rip off because we will spend more money than we lost going after the offender if need be to make an example of him/her and publicize it well to make the point that trying to rip us off is a bad idea. So, what I will actually collect from Witt is unknown, but I know that Witt will end up paying out as much or more money as they got from me if they don't make things right.
    Last edited by CrashAxe; 11-06-19 at 22:38.

  7. #7
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    Some people, regardless of their technical knowledge, just don't know how to run a business. It's likely that he's not trying to screw you. It's just a result of his business incompetence. I live in Georgia and 25 years ago personally sued a guy in Colorado that sold me a crap AR15 complete upper receiver. I think that he was genuinely surprised when I showed up in court as he didn't expect me to make the trip. Little did he know that I had periodic business there anyway. I won, but it took him a year to pay the judgment. Filing lawsuits now is generally easier than it was 25 years ago. It's likely that you can file the lawsuit over the internet. I did that in a more recent situation and it got the attention of the person who was ignoring me. He promptly sent me the refund that he owed. Of course there's always the chance that he calls your bluff on purpose or out of incompetence, but a trip to Colorado wouldn't be so bad anyway. You might start by sending a demand letter via certified mail letting him know that he's about to be sued for $$$. That may be enough to motivate him.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bret View Post
    Some people, regardless of their technical knowledge, just don't know how to run a business. It's likely that he's not trying to screw you. It's just a result of his business incompetence. I live in Georgia and 25 years ago personally sued a guy in Colorado that sold me a crap AR15 complete upper receiver. I think that he was genuinely surprised when I showed up in court as he didn't expect me to make the trip. Little did he know that I had periodic business there anyway. I won, but it took him a year to pay the judgment. Filing lawsuits now is generally easier than it was 25 years ago. It's likely that you can file the lawsuit over the internet. I did that in a more recent situation and it got the attention of the person who was ignoring me. He promptly sent me the refund that he owed. Of course there's always the chance that he calls your bluff on purpose or out of incompetence, but a trip to Colorado wouldn't be so bad anyway. You might start by sending a demand letter via certified mail letting him know that he's about to be sued for $$$. That may be enough to motivate him.
    Yep, a demand letter is Step 1 for legal purposes.
    What if this whole crusade's a charade?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    Yep, a demand letter is Step 1 for legal purposes.
    I'm just wrapping up my first and only divorce. It was the divorce from Hell. I had an out of the area high octane specialist attorney as the first chair and one of my local attorneys as the second chair to make nice with the judge.

    I spoke with my local guy who still has a chunk of my money from my retainer today about this, and he suggested what I was already thinking-have him send a demand letter next week when the 5 days are up, and if I don't get my money, file suit locally since I have local venue in small claims court here in Michigan, then domesticate the judgment in Colorado if need be.

    This approach will give the owner three chances to make things right, and also let him feel the relentless approach of impending doom if he doesn't. :-)>
    Last edited by CrashAxe; 11-07-19 at 19:45.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashAxe View Post
    if I don't get my money, file suit locally since I have local venue in small claims court here in Michigan, then domesticate the judgment in Colorado if need be.
    I seriously question the advice you were given. I've been involved with a good number of collections lawsuits throughout the US. You always have to go to the state where the business is located. In most states, you have to go to the county where the business is located. I doubt the court would even let you bring the lawsuit in your home state (unless by some oddity he has a business presence there). If they do let you bring it, the judge will almost certainly dismiss it. Colorado law is what matters because that's where the business transaction has taken place. A Michigan judge can't rule on Colorado law. In your demand letter you need to let this clown know that you'll file a lawsuit where he is. He's not going to care at all about a Michigan lawsuit.

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