Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 52

Thread: What would you consider a split time on the ar-15 that show's "mastery"

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,650
    Feedback Score
    11 (92%)
    Quote Originally Posted by CoryCop25 View Post
    If you spend your days shooting at paper split times matter more than when you’re shooting at people.

    If I’m shooting at paper, I like to work toward solid accurate 1/4 second splits.

    Shooting at bad guys I like 1/2 second split times.

    The mind takes about 1/4 second to process information and react. Therefore 1/4 splits are too fast to process information in a defense situation.

    It’s a lot easier to start shooting than it is to stop shooting.
    I would think the processing of information would take place before pulling the trigger the first time not between shots at the same target. I it's a single adversary I'm shooting until he no longer controls the weapon he brought to the fight.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Az
    Posts
    4,374
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
    I would think the processing of information would take place before pulling the trigger the first time not between shots at the same target. I it's a single adversary I'm shooting until he no longer controls the weapon he brought to the fight.
    Targets change between shots. It's possible to outrun yourself and end up shooting at a target that's no longer there.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    N.E. OH
    Posts
    7,595
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    Targets change between shots. It's possible to outrun yourself and end up shooting at a target that's no longer there.
    Targets change before shots too.
    A human can only move so much so fast.
    .2 is at best baseline, practicing at speed helps.

    Having the ability to shoot fast is a tool to have that you may or may not use in a sd scenario.
    In practice, The faster you shoot, the faster you have to process targets and whats going on... practicing fast paced shooting and decision-making cannot be a bad thing... but thats just the opinion of a paper-shooter so who knows.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    N.E. OH
    Posts
    7,595
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by CoryCop25 View Post
    If you spend your days shooting at paper split times matter more than when you’re shooting at people.

    If I’m shooting at paper, I like to work toward solid accurate 1/4 second splits.

    Shooting at bad guys I like 1/2 second split times.

    The mind takes about 1/4 second to process information and react. Therefore 1/4 splits are too fast to process information in a defense situation.

    It’s a lot easier to start shooting than it is to stop shooting.

    This is not true for everyone. The faster you practice, the faster you can process stuff.
    Its actually possible to make a shot at a moving target, process the lack of reaction, and re-engage in .2s.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Allentown, PA
    Posts
    3,422
    Feedback Score
    58 (100%)
    No one here is thinking about the shot you fired after the target moved because you were unable to process it.
    That round fired has to go somewhere.
    The person firing that round is responsible for where that round impacts.
    I prefer a 1/2 cadence so I can see reaction to hits and direction the target is going during engagement.
    "Perfect Practice Makes Perfect"
    "There are 550 million firearms on this planet. That's one firearm for every 12 people. The question is... How do we arm the other 11?" Lord of War.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." Thomas Jefferson

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    N.E. OH
    Posts
    7,595
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by CoryCop25 View Post
    No one here is thinking about the shot you fired after the target moved because you were unable to process it.
    That round fired has to go somewhere.
    The person firing that round is responsible for where that round impacts.
    I prefer a 1/2 cadence so I can see reaction to hits and direction the target is going during engagement.

    Whats the different between the first shot and the next?
    The target can always move as you pull the trigger, be it your first shot ir 4th.
    If you are suggesting that you need a sight picture for each shot, I agree.
    I just disagree with your time claim.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    9,325
    Feedback Score
    28 (100%)
    Mastering functional grip and stance will enable short split times.
    Since what you're really addressing is the ability to place rounds into a relevant target in the shortest amount of time possible, I don't think that focusing on splits is where one determines "mastery".
    But to answer the functional part of the question:
    Pass the Viking Tactics "Half and Half" with a 5x8 index card.

    V-Tac Half and Half Drill:
    10 shots fired from the 20, 10, and 5 yard lines.
    Target: "A" Zone or -0 Zone of a USPSA/IDPA target (I prefer 5x8 index card oriented vertically)
    Starting Position: Carbine at Low Ready, loaded and ready, on "Safe".
    Par times: 20 yards: 10 seconds, 10 yards: 5 seconds, 5 yards: 2.5 seconds.
    Any shot after the par time is a miss.
    Pass: all shots from each distance inside prescribed target inside par time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-oYRn_llgo
    Jack Leuba
    Director of Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    Posts
    8,740
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    What Jack said. A split is a metric useful in assessing and improving all the things happening within it. Low splits at increasingly complex distance and accuracy demands reflect better developed fundamentals. It's not a "combat" or "competitive" thing. It's a shooting thing applied to a context.

    Brain processing speed is consistent with a half-second split. Noteworthy trainers and units teach .5 for deadly force application, and some excellent drills and standards are built around it. No harm in striving for better. You can always slow down and shoot well. The inverse isn't as true.

    Know your gas pedal.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    13,115
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    If someone thinks splits don't matter, they are saying rapid rounds on target don't matter as well. We can break that down another way, and assume those persons mean shooting a threat slowly is just as good as shooting them quickly (even if hits are all the same)....

    Obviously the above doesn't fly, but all the info is doing is rephrasing the original post.

    The answer is that splits do matter, as do hits. Anyone who comments different is having a hypothetical conversation, or isn't on the same sheet of music.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


    Flickr Tumblr Facebook Instagram RECOILMAGAZINE OFF GRID RECOIL WEB

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    13,115
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by dean2007 View Post
    On an ar-15, what split time (while maintaining accuracy) would you consider "mastery" of the ar-15. for instance I consider running 1/4 second splits on pistol to be mastery of pistol speed.
    Dean,

    I would humbly submit that without knowing distance engagement, splits tell nothing as there is no way to determine what we are actually talking about aside from time. Splits under .15 are approaching good in my mind, but I read the question with the idea of things being up close and personal. If Jack reads that same question and is thinking about 100 yard 6" steel plates, he will think I'm a loon. If Cory is thinking about an active mall shooter class he just taught in a mall filled with people, his mind is wondering why splits are even a thread topic. That doesn't make any of us wrong, nor any of us right, what is does make is things situationally dependent.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


    Flickr Tumblr Facebook Instagram RECOILMAGAZINE OFF GRID RECOIL WEB

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •