Weighing Equipment vs Ammo vs Training

[MegademiC]

Not sure I'd go that far. Dry fire is good for things like practicing draws and movement. But live fire once a week is hardly a waste of time, especially when you factor in recoil, noise, smoke and actual rounds on target. For a beginner who is getting things down, dry fire is especially beneficial. But for a RKI, once a week is actually a lot of shooting.

That's sort of like me suggesting that anyone who doesn't do force on force with airsoft is wasting their time at the range. While there is a valid point in there somewhere, the entire statement isn't quite true.

Maybe “a waste” is a bit extreme, but he would progress better cutting to once every 2 weeks and dry fireing daily IMO.
The only thing live fire does is train recoil control and verify dry practice..

This assumes he is not a high level shooter yet (uspsa A class or equivalent). At that point its likely he has a good handle on everything and will require more live fire to progress. At least thats been my experience.

If you shoot a lot, you’ll need backup guns, se he’ll need to save up for that. Nothing sucks more than having your carry piece go down and having nothing.

Not sure what RKI is.

[RMiller]

1. Are you debating selling you’re only spare upper? So you’d be down to one complete AR if you do sell it?

2. What red dot are you looking at?

It will not be my only AR, if I sell this one. I have a couple basic 16" rifles set aside for my 2 boys.

The pistol I have now is for defensive use in mind, and fits the criteria of "pistol", so with my CCL in IL, it can be with me, and on me in a ready state.

Professional training opens the door to better choices. It leads to informed choices on equipment, and better practice.

Doing practice sessions with incorrect performance or poor drills does not increase one's skills. Frequently, they just reinforce bad habits.

You already learned that lesson, based on the way you are incorporating the lessons from the Vickers class into your range sessions.

There are a lot of good local trainers all over the country. I'd sell the upper without regret, and pursue additional classes.

Hope that helps.

That I am. My weaknesses are support hand only shooting and shooting while moving. (Pistol).

Rifle it comes a little easier, but I want to be better.

How long is America's rifle and it's parts going to be available to us non-governmental citizens? Would it be better to stock up now while it's a buyer's market and forego other pursuits? Just something to think about.

How many do I need? I have a couple stashed away for my boys. Maybe some rainy day stuff.

How long after that will the skills be far more valuable than the hardware?

If you dont dry fire every day, live fire once a week is a waste IME.

I dry fire almost daily, I can solidly say at least every other day. This includes presentations and drawing, etc.

I would consolidate to the point of having one handgun, one rifle. Period. Not a new concept

At that point I would either layaway or slowly save up for the red dot. You already have sights on your rifle, and they work. People have done amazing things with iron sights and nothing but practice.

You need a rifle, obviously. You need ammo and mags. You need a sling. Everything else you can do without.

I can't throw money at things like some can. I have no ego. I just want to be a little better every day even if I'm dead last. I don't care what others do, only what I can do with what I have

This is kind of where I am at, well besides the red dot. Why have the money tied up in duplicates when I have spare parts, plenty of mags, an OK stock of ammo. I can budget out enough ammo to practice what I learn in classes, while saving for classes.

Decent reliable AR, check.
Good Sling, check.
Decent reliable side arm, check.
Mags, check. I have at least a dozen for the pistol, double for the AR.

Maybe “a waste” is a bit extreme, but he would progress better cutting to once every 2 weeks and dry fireing daily IMO.
The only thing live fire does is train recoil control and verify dry practice..

This assumes he is not a high level shooter yet (uspsa A class or equivalent). At that point its likely he has a good handle on everything and will require more live fire to progress. At least thats been my experience.

If you shoot a lot, you’ll need backup guns, se he’ll need to save up for that. Nothing sucks more than having your carry piece go down and having nothing.

Not sure what RKI is.

I think I am in need of grip and recoil management practice. It's transitions and moving (while retaining accuracy with multiple shots) that need work for me.

Example, this is the "700pt aggregate" of mine shot at Larry's class. This range hand some limitations, so we didn't do prone shooting, and I think there was a bit of a handicap of 20yds. (Supposed to be shot at 25yds, iirc).

My 600pt aggregate:



Scores are BlackWhiteBrown and by points.

The white "misses" were most definitely my "weak" or support hand only.

[TMS951]

Get your basic gear together.

2x Glock 19 or the like. Get two of the same as the accessories will work on the back up too.

2x Good rifle (colt or better) with an optic, sling and white light. (This is much more expensive than pistols. You are looking at 2000$ for each set up rifle. Build over time, get your first rifle and set it up, then get a bare back up rifle and then deck it out.)

Get some rifle training, LAV does a good basic class, take his. Now between that and the pistol class you have a good idea of some drills to practice with. After this take more classes as your budget allows, but prioritize it last compared to getting all your basic gear.

Practice, your ammo budget is very reasonable and much more than most people shoot. With the pistol and rifle classes under your belt you should be able to make very effective practice of that ammo budget.


I'd hesitate to take the carbine class with out a back up rifle. In something like a class you often find out just how reliable your gun is. It would suck hard to pay for the class, lodging, take time off from work and then not finish the class or make good use of it because your one carbine went down.

Two is one, and one is none. Gear doesn't make the shooter, but you can't be a shooter with out gear.

[SteyrAUG]

Maybe “a waste” is a bit extreme, but he would progress better cutting to once every 2 weeks and dry fireing daily IMO.
The only thing live fire does is train recoil control and verify dry practice..

This assumes he is not a high level shooter yet (uspsa A class or equivalent). At that point its likely he has a good handle on everything and will require more live fire to progress. At least thats been my experience.

If you shoot a lot, you’ll need backup guns, se he’ll need to save up for that. Nothing sucks more than having your carry piece go down and having nothing.

Not sure what RKI is.

I did get your larger point. And I could add probably a dozen other factors that live shooting provides that isn't dealt with when doing dry fire, but I don't think either of us is trying to split hairs that much.

RKI is a "pre operator" term, reasonably knowledgeable individual.

[RMiller]

I have together the next 3 months for handgun and carbine.

I put all of them in a 3 hole binder, a lot of PDF printable skills building and measuring targets, along with some I can use a NRA B-8 Target.

I wanted it this way, so that when I am done, I can reinsert the work into the binder to track my progress.

I am going to try for the red dot, and let fate decide. It's in the MP.

[markm]

I'm BEYOND over the training thing. I know people will disagree, but in my opinion, constant training is suited for folks who run a gun for a living... especially those who work on teams of cops/soldiers.

Ongoing practice, on the other hand, is very good to do.

[Arik]

Practice is good but most people don't have the facilities to practice like that. Typical 25 yard indoor ranges.

I have a new range opened a few years ago. State of the art, including moving targets and a kill house. However, to use the whole bay for moving targets is crazy expensive and forget about the kill house. Best thing is targets that can be programmed to turn in your lane. Set the time for how long it faces you. At least allows you to get faster draw and first shot. Otherwise it's all static.

[RMiller]

I'm BEYOND over the training thing. I know people will disagree, but in my opinion, constant training is suited for folks who run a gun for a living... especially those who work on teams of cops/soldiers.

Ongoing practice, on the other hand, is very good to do.

This is a short term training spike. Just looking to improve upon what I have set as a foundation. I am only looking to do about 2 classes next year.

There will be a lot more practice.

Practice is good but most people don't have the facilities to practice like that. Typical 25 yard indoor ranges.

I have a new range opened a few years ago. State of the art, including moving targets and a kill house. However, to use the whole bay for moving targets is crazy expensive and forget about the kill house. Best thing is targets that can be programmed to turn in your lane. Set the time for how long it faces you. At least allows you to get faster draw and first shot. Otherwise it's all static.

I am lucky enough to have a friend that has a rural patch of land with a built up berm. I can get out to 100-175yds depending on the year and how tall the grass is. There is a "paved" (it's really just hard pack chewed up asphalt) area that will give me 75yds "ish".

[markm]

This is a short term training spike. Just looking to improve upon what I have set as a foundation. I am only looking to do about 2 classes next year.

There will be a lot more practice.

Absolutley. I'm not saying training isn't a worthwhile deal. I mean... I've taken like 10 classes in both pistol, rifle, and even one bird gun class. Just for me... at some point with age and wisdom, you realize that you're not going to be required to jump in a stack and raid a building.

Keeping proficient on my own makes more sense.

[RMiller]

Absolutley. I'm not saying training isn't a worthwhile deal. I mean... I've taken like 10 classes in both pistol, rifle, and even one bird gun class. Just for me... at some point with age and wisdom, you realize that you're not going to be required to jump in a stack and raid a building.

Keeping proficient on my own makes more sense.

I'm probably a young pup compared to most here.

I'm figuring more out and wanting to learn from the older guys (hence the recent Vickers class).

I do recognize the need to practice what I am taught, what I see value in for my life, and know my limitations.