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Darryl has BTDT with both revolvers and semi-auto handguns. His observations are interesting and useful. This is part one of two:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...99287713557074
ETA 25Nov
Part 2
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...99287713557074
Last edited by Bruce in WV; 11-25-19 at 13:18.
Yankee refugee living in the free state of West Virginia.
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Delete.
Last edited by RetroRevolver77; 04-20-20 at 12:05.
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There was a very good S&W gunsmith in Northern Virginia, Sam Hatfield, who could do magic with S&W revolvers. Unfortunately, he closed his shop last Jan 1, but he's a younger man and probably still in the business in somebody else's shop. He worked on several new Smiths to tune them up for me, and rebuilt several more. Keep an eye out for him, and if you run across him working in your area, take him all the work he'll accept. He's worth every penny.Originally Posted by RetroRevolver77
Yankee refugee living in the free state of West Virginia.
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Retiming a post 1992 S&W is easier than you think. The extractor isn't even a fitted part anymore.
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...omment-3085631
Revolvers, like 1911s, have a certain level of DIY built in. That wasn't always the case. Especially with some parts like the older pinned extractors. That was truly a professional's job.
But the post CNC guns are not as complicated as some people seem to think. Pop open a new S&W sometime and take a look around. There isn't that much hand fitting going on.
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Darryl is a good friend, and one of the best revolver teachers walking the earth. I talked with Darryl about this exact thread and discussion tonight.
I was also at the Tom Givens Rangemaster Master Instructor class this weekend, that prompted the original Internet posts about revolver reliability. Out of 18 people in the class, we had four people experience issues. Both my wheelguns ran fine. I had a K-frame 3" Smith and Wesson Performance Center Model 66 Comp, and a Karl Sokol 2" Model 64. Both guns were well-tested and maintained by me. I was also shooting quality factory-loaded ammo.
It's a very difficult thing to cram all the lessoned learned from a three-day Instructor class into an Internet sound-bite. Keep that in mind.
I will also say that the people in that class had all completed the Rangemaster Instructor Development class, and the Rangemaster Advanced Instructor Development Class as a prerequisite just to be there. So there's not a lot of people who were eligible to be in the room.
That said, not everyone had the same level of experience with revolvers. It was really eye-opening to a lot of folks.
The point that Tom Givens makes in that class is that a revolver has limited capacity, and will require a gunsmith for repairs. A semi-auto has immediate action drills that one can perform, and has higher capacity.
For those reasons, I carry a 9mm Beretta Vertec filled with 18 rounds. It's been tuned by Ernest Langdon, and it extremely accurate and reliable.
BUT - I also have a Smith & Wesson J-frame Model 342 in my left front pocket as I type this. Because they compliment each other very well.
Ammo was an issue in the class. One shooter had Winchester ammo that had surface grease and/or some other substance on the cases. It caused difficulty with loading and unloading. That person is an extraordinarily skilled revolver shooter, and a friend. They changed ammo, and the gun ran fine.
Another gun had keyholing - that was not a lockup.
Two other guns ran European ammo with hard primers. Those two guns had light primer strikes.
Banned
I'm a sample of one, but I do know this:
My M&P9 everyday carry gun has never had a jam attributable to the gun. It has failed to go into battery 3 or 4 times, but I was using lead flat point handloads, and the lead smeared on the way in. To be expected running lead loads in a semi, although my round-nose lead bullets have been perfect so far, as have jacketed bullets of all shapes.
On the other hand, my 686, firing far fewer rounds, had a jam at the range. Cylinder locked up tight. Investigation revealed a tiny piece of jacket got wedged in the cylinder gap. In a situation, I'd have been killed.
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If the audience is a bunch of Glock guys racking up instructor hours who probably won't shoot more than a few rounds through a J-frame now and again, then that's fair.
If the prereq to even be in the class is a ton of Instructor Development hours then I would have thought the analogue to the 1911 would have come up. In that, they're really "enthusiast's pistols" and that comes with learning, to some degree, to be your own gunsmith. Which for the newer S&Ws, is easier than it used to be.
Just out of curiosity do you know if the guns having light strikes had "factory equivalent" spring kits in them? And if they had the firing pin on the hammer or frame?...
Two other guns ran European ammo with hard primers. Those two guns had light primer strikes.
Moderator
I think this is a fair point. For me, the only revolver worth bothering with is the J-frame. Mine have lasted thousands of rounds and I guess I might send it back to smith if it broke, but honestly I would probably just fork out $350 for a new one and swap over my laser grips.
Let those who are fond of blaming and finding fault, while they sit safely at home, ask, ‘Why did you not do thus and so?’I wish they were on this voyage; I well believe that another voyage of a different kind awaits them.”
Christopher Columbus
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I would say that most of the people in that class had over a 1000 hours of instruction/training with pistols. I am north of that, myself. Most of them I know personally and have trained with multiple times. I know at least five of them have over 3000 hours.
I know that two of the guns that had light strikes were using the same batch of European ammo (S&B) that is known for harder primers.
And I follow you on how a firing pin nose makes a real difference compared to a fixed firing pin. One of the "issues" was with a GP-100 with the framed-mounted pin and a transfer bar. I looked at the other, and made sure that the strain screw was not backed out, I think we have all seen snake-oil gunsmiths who back out the strain screw, and call that a "trigger job". Both of those shooters are very highly skilled, and good friends. Frankly, it was just a batch of ammo with hard primers.
We were running pretty fast and furious in class. So when a shooter had an issue, they simply pitched the gun in a bag and grabbed a different one. If they still had an issue, the ammo was suspect. If they did not, then it was likely that revolver. I bought over a dozen revolvers to the class, as did another person. There were lots to go around, believe me.
My intention with this participating in this thread is not to cast blame, or sling poo. I just want to point out that I was one of the people on the range, passed the class, and am what I would consider a dedicated and skilled revolver shooter. I have insight into what makes them run well, and what makes them not run at all.
As a fer instance, I spent a year dragging a factory S&W 686 to pistol classes. I was always the only wheelgun in a class full of Glocks and M&P's. And I'd usually finish in the upper half of the class. I got REALLY good with Safariland speedloaders.
I did it not to be an asshole, but to really learn how to improve my double-action trigger work. It also made me much more skilled with a Glock (striker-fired) or a Beretta (DA/SA). That's why I did it.
Revolvers have a place. They make an excellent teaching gun to help people overcome a flinch. They make a great complimentary weapon to a primary large-capacity semi-auto. They make a useful pistol for people with an unusual hand structure, since the stocks are so varied. They make a great weapon for shooting with a compromised grip.
Tools are tools. Know the limitations of the tool and yourself, and you have an edge. Ignore both, and you are a fool.
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