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Thread: Tactics vs. the restaurant take-over robbery

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post
    This always seemed like a tough scenario I couldn't come up with acceptable answers for besides, "get out if you can".

    So I created this thread for comments and ideas.

    It seems that if you see it coming you may be able to draw and start shooting as the bad guys enter the place. But if you have those few seconds you're probably better off using them to MOVE out.

    If they come in shooting or want to tie people up / search everybody then your in a real pickle.
    I think you also need to be aware of what is/has been going on in your AO.

    As an example, if I was by the walk-ins in a local convenience store and an armed robbery went down, my actions would be initially be influenced by the recent history of armed robberies in the AO.

    As an example, if the most recent cases have involved the clerks being harmed, the armed robber probably wouldn't even know he'd been in a rather one-sided gun fight. On the other hand, if the history is that the last year's worth of armed robbers have done nothing to harm the clerk's, I'm likely to hunker down and wait.

    You have to do what you think is best and live with the outcome. You are on the right track thinking scenarios through before hand, better than making it up on the fly.
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Sedition, a Free Press and Personal Rule, The Kansas City Star, May 1918

  2. #12
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    I'm gonna say it. Hate me if you want. Whatever tactics/lack of you decide to employ, don't open carry---IMO.

    Now that that's out of the way, I agree with 26 Inf. Comply until you can no longer do so safely. Whether or not you stand up for someone else's safety is a personal decision that you--or any number of other people--might have to live with for the rest of your life (or theirs). Do a realistic assessment of your success probability. If you believe it's in your favor, do what you have to do. If not, you may want to weigh your options. Don't be an unnecessary hero; but by all means, do the right thing if you can.

    --the entire $.02 worth of my whole opinion.
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

    "It is better to be thought a fool and to remain silent, than to speak and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln

  3. #13
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    One way or another you are probably going to get shot.

    I agree with compliance until you either “get your turn” or it’s looking like they will kill you anyways.

    At that point you are a had ass or at their mercy if you have not escaped.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegademiC View Post
    Exit if possible.

    Very situationally dependent, but from what Ive seen, your best chance is at the beginning. They are coming in to take control, once they have it you have less options. If they meet resistance in the doorway while still trying to assess the situation, they are more likely to abort.

    If they do get control before you can react, best thing is to comply until you have an opportunity to make a move.
    I agree with this. The bad guys are jazzed up and the "fight or flight juice" is pumping through their system before they're even in the door. Sudden unexpected resistance can easily turn fight into flight but it isn't guaranteed.

    I believe they have initial control of the situation (where, when, how) but that only gets them in the door. Maintaining control of a fluid and high stress situation gets easier for them as time goes on and they adapt to the current problem. Either going rabbit or fighting back would be effective early on but gets harder the longer you wait. Throw them off balance, bail or wait.

    If your assessment leads you to believe the window has passed and waiting is best, complying with their demands would probably be the safest bet. At that point, physically resisting would be absolute last resort.

  5. #15
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    Cool

    Meh... it ain't that hard. Even us OLD guys can handle that. With a revolver.


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  6. #16
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    .44 Special instant one shot stops are an unfair advantage.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by StovePipe_Jammer View Post
    I agree with this. The bad guys are jazzed up and the "fight or flight juice" is pumping through their system before they're even in the door. Sudden unexpected resistance can easily turn fight into flight but it isn't guaranteed.

    I believe they have initial control of the situation (where, when, how) but that only gets them in the door. Maintaining control of a fluid and high stress situation gets easier for them as time goes on and they adapt to the current problem. Either going rabbit or fighting back would be effective early on but gets harder the longer you wait. Throw them off balance, bail or wait.

    If your assessment leads you to believe the window has passed and waiting is best, complying with their demands would probably be the safest bet. At that point, physically resisting would be absolute last resort.
    If you can fight effectively, with minimal risk, I don't see a problem with that. My only concern is that there will probably be other patrons who might be trying to flee themselves, and they can easily get caught in the crossfire. Do what you do, just be ready to live--or die--with the consequences.

    One thing I'll add to solidify your idea of overwhelming them early on: I was browsing YouTube yesterday, and came across a news story from London of a guy who fought off three home invaders armed with knives. I'll try to add the link later, but it was pretty impressive.
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

    "It is better to be thought a fool and to remain silent, than to speak and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln

  8. #18
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    As a general rule, my priorities in this order: get my friends/family out, get myself out, get as many non-perps out with us as we can. Fight/Flight may change based on circumstances; if you're rolling Mickey D's meh whatever, but if this is MY favorite diner where I've made friends with the whole crew and you wave a weapon in MY favorite waitress's face, well I hope your Blue Cross is paid up. (Remember, that 'F&F First' mindset?)

    Four friends died under similar circumstances at their favorite coffee spot ten years ago today (though that was a straight-up targeted cop-killing rather than a robbery), so I think on this pretty regularly--the last, hardest and most painful lesson I learned from them. RIP Mark, Ron, Tina, Greg.
    You really have to ask why Conservatives have guns? Because Liberals block freeways, burn cities, throw Molotov cocktails, loot, turn over cop cars, and think this behavior is Socially Acceptable.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    See also: Pulp Fiction.
    ftfy


  10. #20
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    I am a member of USCCA and they always have scenarios like this with maps of locations and pose those questions. I think knowing exits is important, not boxing yourself into a corner with no exit is important, being able to see the exits and entrance is important.

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